I cannot think of a more absurd, completely illogical, completely failed, doomed to fail, is defined as failed from the outset as the War in Afghanistan. Does anybody notice the landscape of the place ? It is like waging a war on Mars. Totally insane. Does anybody look at the so called enemies ? Thousands of ancient tribesmen who have a completely different religion, culture, world view, they seem to come out of a science fiction book, out of some history book on ancient tribes of Central Asia. They come from the middle ages, from a time and place, a mentality, a world view so different form the standard Western Democracy as being totally impossible to even relate to, communicate with.
I can’t understand how such a war can continue, how smart westerners cannot see how failed this war is. Do they really think they can change the complete pyschological asset of a few million tribesmen in Central Asia ? do they really think these men even understand anything about democracy, and the so called western model of “economic growth” ? Who on earth are we kidding ? who on earth can believe this war even makes any possible remote sense ?
Oh, the latest version is that we must put Afghanistan on the track of economic growth, “create jobs”, etc. Are these people crazy or what ? we haven’t been able to create jobs or economic growth in most of the western world for decades, just look at Japan, Italy, large areas of the USA, etc. But we will create them in that mars like land full of ancient tribesmen call Afghanistan.
Irak and afghanistan wars have been a huge success if you measure them in how many terrorist attacks have been made on USA or Eu soil since 9/11 : only 3 including madrid and london. So the idea is to fight them over there in those countries and in pakistan to keep them out of the west. Since al qaeda and taliban and extreme muslims are only looking for a stage where to fight, they are looking for an open territory where to fight, and the US and west have given them this stage to “express themselves” and for them to “make a statement” in irak, afghanistan, pakistan and somalia.
Yes doomed… But might makes stupid…We have to do it…It is inevitable that such foolishness cannot be stopped… Consider that no person can see without their ideas, that to see a tree would be impossible without the idea of a tree… Yet, fools let their ideas blind them to reality… Instead of using ideas to help them think they use them to do their thinking… There are our enemies, let us go an fight them rather than guard against them, and raise their enmity, and multiply their number… We are America, and no matter how often we are defeated we cannot be defeated… It is all nonsense… We have won our last war because we cannot learn to choose our fights, or our battlegrounds…
If you measure our success by our investment, and their success by their investment then they have won… They are like a housefly giving a fat man a heart attack… So what if he kills the fly??? There will be more…The attack on us was minimal, and to have our revenge we have killed more of our own than they did… We have not won, but have doubled our loss…
America is a Horsefly, we are all smaller and weaker species of fly trying to get at the best shit on the earth, which is a larger ball of shit.
just because one arm gets tired when we interfere overseas people think we have lost, but the fertile shit we lay our eggs in pays off beautifully to the dna or agenda of the fly.
It’s systematic domination. Like Orwells war this one is meant to be sustained, providing fear and justification for our continued battle against other nations, and the nations battles against the people of its own nation.
As a retired Ironworker I offer you the metaphore of the crane…The further you boom out, the less you can pick up… That is because after a while it is all the crane can do to hold itself up… We are over extended, and why??? Democracy as a social form of organization was always about defense… What we have is not democracy, and so it is offensive, and what it would do to them it would do to you if you got in their way… They know the value of a dollar unless you are paying it, but they have no sense of the value of life…
This is pretty racist and generally pig-ignorant. The War in Afghanistan makes perfect sense, geopolitically.
Propaganda, having their continued salaries and status dependent on repeating bullshit as if it were truth?
That isn’t the aim.
Democracy at the barrel of a gun is a hypocrisy and a nonsense.
Lots of people. You’ve been ‘kidded’ into your view of Afghans as alien, medieval peasants, presuming to understand them while at the same time claiming it’s impossible for them to understand you.
It’s a colonial attitude. The same shit they told to the people who slaughtered the Native Americans and enslaved the Africans.
This has been a deliberate policy in Japan, USA etc. It’s good to have some unemployed, it keeps the employed people working.
The Taliban - Al Qaeda - Muslim extremists - terrorists and all of the variants in between essentially are one unit. They bombed the USA with 9/11, then London subway, then Madrid subway. So the same enemy unit (including all its variants) wanted to make a statement, wanted to express themselves, so we have to fight them over there in Irak, Afghanistan , Somalia and Pakistan.
This enemy unit can be found from Algeria to Egypt, to Somalia, to some sub-saharan nations, to Pakistan, some India and Bangladesh, Iran , Afghanistan and Indonesia (a country of 200 million muslims, a few thousands that want to blow us up, considering us as USA, EU and JAPAN and South Korea, and some other western nations).
An interesting pattern that emerges in the behavior of the USA since 1945 is that it has never really won a war since then. Maybe aside from the cold war, the first Irak war (at least liberating Kwait) and Yugoslavia (at least putting Serbia under control), The war in Korea is at a stalemate, the USA is still officially at war with North Korea, so they are just waiting to “finish” it, the Vietnam war was lost, along with all of the Indochina nations (Cambodia and Laos), the war in Irak is at a stalemate, not really winning and not really losing, the war in Afghanistan is also at a stalemate, not really winning and not really losing.
The only war that the USA wins is that of extending Capitalism and Consumerism - globalization, or at least what is considered “capitalism”, especially in Vietnam, Southeast Asia, even in China, India, etc. The USA has been hugely succesful in creating a global consumer market, but maybe they are losing this “war” at home with loss of manufacturing, and even white collar jobs …
No they didn’t. Even if we accept that the alleged 7/7 bombers were guilty of what they have been accused of, they had no connection to Bin Laden, or the Taleban.
This is not why we’re involved in these countries, and never was. It may have been part of the bullshit reasons given.
List as many countries as you like, it doesn’t make what you say correct. Show the connections, or abandon your position. Those are your only two choices.
The question is not where our enemies reside, or their number, but why we are not trying to cure them of their enmity and make them our friends… Sixty years ago the Arabs thought of us as champions of self determination… After many years of trying to manipulate their worlds, and of support for Israel they now almost universally distrust us, and some purely hate our guts… Still, the news says we are paying four hundred dollars a gallon for the fuel we use there with all costs considered… We are litterally going to the ends of thei earth to get a bloody nose… Are we thinking we will lose face if we do not shed blood??? We can shed all the blood we want at whatever cost, but if we do not have the sense to pick our fights, and our battle fields, we will lose more than face… We should not operate on their rules, and we should live by our own…
The u.s tries to make nations with resources its friend for economic benefit, if they are not friendly they try to overthrow the government and set up a friendly one. If they cannot do this and they still want the resources badly enough, we will go to war.
It’s not about protection, it’s not about liberation.
People abroad don’t merel’y "distrust’ Americans, they hate them for being deluded by a totalitarian government which exploits the rest of the world.
So do you think these people would commit acts of terrorism in order to give these deluded bullies justification to destroy them?
Bin Laden is not wanted for 9/11 because there is no actual evidence linking him to it.
the 7/7 bombers were not disenfranchised spiritual folk from abroad, they were normal people.
everything has spin.
Taliban means group of students.
Al Jazeera means free and unbiased media.
Al Qaeda is a computer database of random networks of ex freedom fighters gone mercenary.
I’ve got a pretty substantial 9/11 post cumming up, so I’ll save the rest for then
The u.s tries to make nations with resources its friend for economic benefit, if they are not friendly they try to overthrow the government and set up a friendly one. If they cannot do this and they still want the resources badly enough, we will go to war.
It’s not about protection, it’s not about liberation.
People abroad don’t merel’y "distrust’ Americans, they hate them for being deluded by a totalitarian government which exploits the rest of the world.
So do you think these people would commit acts of terrorism in order to give these deluded bullies justification to destroy them?
Bin Laden is not wanted for 9/11 because there is no actual evidence linking him to it.
the 7/7 bombers were not disenfranchised spiritual folk from abroad, they were normal people.
everything has spin.
Taliban means group of students.
Al Jazeera means free and unbiased media.
Al Qaeda is a computer database of random networks of ex freedom fighters gone mercenary.
I’ve got a pretty substantial 9/11 post cumming up, so I’ll save the rest for then
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The U.S. wants resources, but it also needs markets, and while we go about antagonizing a billion and a half of people, we can kiss our markets good bye… We cannot exist selling war materials and buying all we sell… We cannot go to the ends of the earth to make the point that we have went there to fail… Democracy is defensive, and the greatest proof that we are no longer democratic is that attack other countries… The advantage for any people is in defense… When your economy demands resources and markets you have to attack far away to defend both…The economy is running the government…It was set up that way, like Rome in decline because our property owners admired those people…Property ownership endowed the owner with rights…The owners once paid for their rights…As much as in Feudal times, the enjoyment of wealth demanded a public service…Now, no service is required, not even taxes… They tell the government what to do, and the people pay for it… Does anyone suppose that if those who benefit from our beligerance had to pay for it that they would??? We pay for having no choice but to pay, but we see no benefit… Since before the last Gulf war, this country has paid more to keep a navy in the Persian Gulf than it has paid for the oil taken out of the region… That is the true cost of oil; but since the rich do not pay, what they do not pay for their navy is their profit…
This is essentially the tale told by John Perkins. You familiar with him at all?
What’s it about?
It isn’t just the US, though they are the most obvious manifestation of this.
Perhaps, perhaps not.
To date no one has been convicted for the 9/11 attacks.
To date no one has been convicted for the 7/7 attacks. And the evidence against the four alleged bombers is incredibly weak.
Not exactly. Al Qaeda was a database of CIA-trained mujahideen during the Afghan-Soviet War, but the name was purloined by Bin Laden when he set up his organisation in 1988. Exactly what it is now is a very complicated question, for example the head of MI5 called it a ‘brand’. Consider the implications of that.
they would have to be highly trained skilled and well funded lunatics.
apparently 6 of the hijackers are still alive.
strong enough for war though… which is intriguing…
brands are soomething which you develop over time. It seems that the CIA trained mujahadeen Islamic extremists are now painted as the evil hole where the bad guys come from. When they are fighting soviets they are freedom fighters and their struggle demands our assistance. But when the soviets decline and they push for independence without selling out to the glorious liberators of america, they are now terrorists.
Personally I believe we create problems so that when we “fix” them, we advance unrelated and immoral agendas…
It’s taking me awhile though, and fairly daunting. it will be an inductive 3 stage cumulative argument beginning with discrediting the terrorist theory, next discrediting the official story of the 9/11 events, and finally constructing an argument for the motives of “the government”, which seems like it will be the easiest part of the entire argument.
