August 8, 2006
Regarding this thread, “We Are God”, here are preliminary post excerpts from “Fear and Wisdom” in Religion, by Nick
Nick’s quotes were:
Pro 9:10 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy [is] understanding.
To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom. - Bertrand Russell
Luxin to Nick:
Fear, Love and Understanding’s opposite
July 15, 2006
Hi Nick,
The 2 quotes reflect the same truth. To fear God doesn’t make sense – literally interpreted it means “fear yourself”, because we are God. The correct interpretation is “respect God”, elaborated as the only truly fearful thing is the awful consequences of not respecting God or respecting our True Self. My saying “God is not for the fearful” may…
Aspiring to be a pure troublemaker, I’m inserting the following transcript of my first talk. I am not editing it to reflect slight changes in viewpoint, so one should not think it reflects my thoughts exactly.
Glory be to me! (Abu Yazid al-Bistam, d. 874)
I am the Truth! [Anah al-Haq!] (Mansur al-Hallaj, executed for “blasphemy” in 922)
i included the article:
fear, the destroyer of all things
by luxin
luxin729y@yahoo.ca
…
Nick to Luxin:
What gave you the idea that we are God?
I’ve posted this before and probably will again since it is so useful to express this point. You like these old stories. It tells of the danger of sleep manifesting as egotism.
(story omitted – see original thread…)
This is why the ancient traditions speak of man’s nothingness. I believe that experiencing this is on the path to wisdom.
me to Nick:
We are God
July 29, 2006
Hi Nick,
If we aren’t God, then what could He be? Your sheep allegory suggests that the sheep (i.e., most of us) do not have the substance to see the lies we are being fed, and relates the fact that there are “evil” people who can lead we sheep astray. When we God-sheep realize we are not just sheep (usually after we have been led astray, but usually more by our own weakness than any “magician”) the time of our cringing obedience to false authority can be over.
To realize one is part of God carries more responsibility than the average person is ready to take on. Not believing in one’s universal essence only furthers the self-deceit you speak of. It is a fearful thing for most to contemplate being part of God; it suggests more change and growth than most want to face. Most God-sheep want to cling to the fallacy that they are just “sheep”. The price for this we all pay…
The real danger in the allegory is not the magician, but the pathetic state of the sheep. For every victim there is a victimizer. But I haven’t the slightest concern for victims – this is the work of community organizations.
Yours,
Luxin
luxin729y@yahoo.ca
tfdmissmatch to Luxin:
I am a human.
I am not a god.
I am not part of a god.
These truths are evident.
Humans are not gods. Humans are Creation.
Equating God and Man is a drastic misinterpretation of the Bible. English has at least preserved enough of the original meaning of the source Biblical texts to make this obvious. My uncle has a doctorate in theology and he disagrees with the notion of self being a God. By no means can the text in its original form be interpreted to say such a thing. The proclamation of self is an idea that is entirely fabricated and has no Biblical basis.
Luxin, perhaps Christianity is not the best religion for you. If you want to make your own “truths” then you should find a religion that encourages you to do so. The Bible is very clear in respect to this issue. Christians dont make the truths, they discover them.
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. - Albert Einstein.
Advice is seldom welcome. Those who need it most, like it least. - Samuel Johnson.
Dear tfdmissmatch,
Thank you for your criticism. I haven’t read a … hehehehe. Pardon me, just enjoying myself. I have to censor myself because I don’t want to annoy you too much, but I have thoroughly enjoyed your response. All I can say is God bless literalists. hehehehe. What suggested I might be inclined to Christianity? I belong to all religions yet belong to none, because I’m an unrestricted member of the human race. Yes, I quote the Bible all the time, because it is one of the greatest books of wisdom every written. Perhaps you should read it?
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21)
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17, KJV
- I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
- But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
(Psalms 82.6-7)
(to Jews about to stone him for ‘blasphemy’ and God-presumption:)
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?
(John 10.34)
Whatsoever is, is in God. (Spinoza, Ethics, 1677)
God is the indwelling, not the transient cause, of all things. (Spinoza, Ethics)
Wherever you turn, there is the face of God. (Koran, 2:109)
I say that we are God. If some can’t handle that, or believe the divisive propaganda that seeks to put the control of people in the hands of a few divinely inspired folks, I can only accept that reality is not for everybody.
Note the alleged quote of the alleged man Jesus in John 10.34 above. I feel in good company with Jesus or whoever inspired that quote. Actually, the fact that it has not been edited out or rewritten by ecclesiastics long ago is an effing miracle.
As an aside, all quotes except the last would be considered those of Jews.
But I’m a Taoist really. What would I know about God?
I’m a lamb really, but a wolf for the truth. Give me a nice jugular vein any day. I love this quote…
He who wants to wrestle with wolves should have claws of bears. (Swedish)
Hoping I receive more stimulating feedback. It’s all good!
Yours,
Luxin
luxin729y@yahoo.ca
Ned Flanders to me:
Jesus was not saying that everyone is God. Look at verse 36.
36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does.
Jesus proved his divinity by what he did. Can you?
“There’s nary an animal alive that can outrun a greased Scotsman”
Connections comment:
Sounds like a tall order Ned
August 8, 2006
Dear All,
Putting divinity out of one’s scope is dangerous self-depreciation, yet the majority appear to do it. Millions have been persecuted or slaughtered to defend the hierarchical fallacy that we are not all (at least potentially) equally divine.
My own conscience told me that saying things that threaten the foundations of people’s conceptual existence was likely inadvisable, and my friend afterward advised me not to do it. He doesn’t annoy people directly, but neither of us can avoid annoying people in the extreme with the briefest of statements. I don’t generally intentionally annoy people because I like to see everybody happy. Perhaps I could “clean up my act” a bit. I must say my response to tdfmissmatch was rather annoying, putting myself in his or her shoes. One must be careful with words because they can’t be taken back. However if we don’t make mistakes we never learn.
I apologize to you, tdfmissmatch, and to all who hold their doctrines dear, whether religionists, philosophers, or scholars. However, the considered truths I shared will stand from my viewpoint. After all is said or done, only the truth is left. An existence where fewer and fewer mistakes are made as time goes on is the path of wisdom. I am obviously not wise, and treasure the concept that I am a fool. I thank the Tarot for reminding me of this. In the higher cards interpretive statements like “the fool has finally discovered the secrets of life” are found.
I’m happy that some of you have responded as I hoped you would, even though I may have gone a bit overboard to get a response. I’m a fun-loving person and have been fairly bored up to now. I trust you will forgive me. After all, we are all God. I will do my best not to have fun “at your expense”. Clearly, if Inquisitors had been able to collar me during the Inquisition, I would have burned at the stake. The Inquisition is actually still with us, but doesn’t operate quite the same. Clearly, we will post things that many of us would not be able to say to the faces of those they write to. If I was sitting among you, it is likely you would not hear me say a word. I know when people around me are not ready to hear what I have to say and if there’s the likelihood that I will upset them; facial expressions, body language, voice quality and the quality of conversation are so important and easily read by the perceptive.
Until we can free ourselves from doctrine, truth is the thing that threatens the very “core of our being”, that core being a substitute for reality. The reason truth, and those who presume to represent it, are so threatening is because truth separates people from other people and things that have, until truth is realized, been considered essential to their continued well-being.
The symbol of wisdom or truth is the sword in Matthew 10.34-39 following. “I”, “my” or “me” do not represent any particular man, but the truth or God in all. Truth naturally divides for the good of all, and this process is beyond mere human will. This concept does not give one license to reject anyone consciously; truth realizers and formalists are naturally separated without intolerance, confrontation or bitterness. “Foe” will be misinterpreted. “Life” means the life of the spirit, not our physical or mortal life. Literalists can never understand the esoteric meaning of their holy books.
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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
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For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
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And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
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He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
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And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
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He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
To get closer to the truth that lies within we must “give up” (actually, replace) more and more of what we have held dear, until it seems there is nothing left. But, paradoxically, everything is found, and everything that will ever be truly important to us. At the core of our being is the divine, the eternal, and wisdom which bring balance and happiness. Most of us are overbalanced by ego and so-called “reality”: mortgages; jobs in profit-motivated business; poisoning ourselves with fast food; doing exactly what authorities tell us to do. If someone asked you to jump over a cliff would you do it? In terms of your tremendous inner potential, such is figuratively exactly what forces that demand conformity are insidiously but themselves unconsciously “requiring” you to do. No conspiracy theory holds because there is no conspiracy. There is only conceptual darkness.
Ned, you’re assuming Jesus was a real person; there is no evidence of such; he, as the earliest Christians, the persecuted Gnostics claimed, was only symbolic; a symbol of the potential of all of us: Christ Consciousness: forgiving all, etc. Held back by literally interpreted doctrines, religionists can never attain to the wisdom of a “Jesus” or “Buddha”. If Christ had been a real man, he would have laughed at the thought of a religion named after him. Those who believe in love, forgiveness, the oneness and equal divinity or power of all will always be renegades and heretics, naturally “opposing” those who seek earthly and so-called “spiritual” power. I am an admitted heretic and proud of it. One “philosopher” a few years ago did want me to be crucified to see if I would bleed. I since learned to present myself as a real person, not a “disembodied voice on the web”. Closed minds will only view me as a deluded piece of rubbish, nothing. But I know what I am. If I say what we are – the collective essence of God – or just God – and offense is taken, that’s not my problem. I speak for the benefit of truth seekers, not those will deny their very being.
Nick, those who claim to represent truth must at first be viewed as egotists by formalists who cling to doctrine. Yes, experiencing nothingness (where the ego is dead) is essential to the state where true consciousness replaces the illusions of the ego. In your quoted allegory of the eagle who thought he was a chicken, in which it is implied that the eagle could have flown had he known he was an eagle, the eagle’s “false somethingness” was the illusion he was just a chicken; he clung to this to the end. Not able to “give up” his illusion, he went to his grave with it. He no doubt dismissed the flying eagle he saw as an illusion. I was touched by this allegory. I say we are God, but must become as nothing to realize and experience our godliness. However, “becoming nothing” doesn’t mean an inability to say and do some things perceived as outrageous; it means absolute fearlessness where truth is involved. And the path to perfection, if followed, is a continuum that would not seem to reach its end until near or at death.
Truth seekers, the answers you seek are found in and through mathematics, the key to all things. Numbers are not everything, but may lead those who love in the highest sense to the ultimate attainment of happiness and wisdom. If you would like a brief life analysis providing the proof of how your numbers affect your entire existence, just email me. “There is nothing to fear but fear itself”.
I’m not a cult recuiter, and neither are those near me. Followers need doctrines and formality; personalities to look up to. I won’t be at the center of a (corrupt) cult. I value being despised over being praised, for being “spat upon” is proof of my state. Only the few can bear the weight of truth. I am not to be feared, and very few will ever get to know me, because of what I claim to represent. “Nature has buried truth at the bottom of the sea”. (Democritus)
I have to get busy working on a website for a while. Talk to you later. Thank you.