We are not God

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We are not God

What is soul or Atman or causal body? Is it the awareness present in the nervous system? Or is it the inert energy present in the brain? The concept of I exists in both. The egoism ‘I’ exists as a pulse in the brain in the inert energy and the same pulse exists in nervous system being experienced. If you say that the soul is awareness, it is born every day and it dies every day. This is the soul from one angle, which is mentioned by Gita (Athachainam Nityajatam…). Please note that this view is mentioned as an angle and is never condemned by Gita. From another angle, it is the inert energy present in the brain, which is eternal as mentioned in Gita (Ajo Nityah…). Awareness in the nervous system is in the form of work. Inert energy in the brain is in the form of energy.

In one angle the soul is specific work and in another angle soul is inert energy. Energy and work are inter-convertible and both are the same entity in different forms. Therefore, essentially it does not matter, whether you take the soul as work or energy. According to science even the matter is a form of energy only. Therefore, the gross body, which exists in deep sleep, is as good as the inert energy in brain or as good as the awareness in the basic sense in the nervous system. The gross body made of matter, the subtle body made of pulses (whether in the state of inert energy or in the state of awareness) and the causal body which is the inert energy in the brain or awareness in the nervous system are one and the same and come under one category called as creation.

The condensed energy is matter. Work is another form of the same energy. A scientist does not distinguish these three states. These three are the different forms of creation and creation is different from creator. Your analysis of these three states is of no use because you are dancing only in the same medium of creation with out touching the creator. Creation itself is work. It is work of the God. The working material is energy or matter or both. Energy and matter are also different works of God only. God is unimaginable and the work is imaginable. The link between work and God is again unimaginable. The link between a person and work is imaginable because both person and work are imaginable. Thus, there is no example in this world to imagine the God or to imagine the link with His work. Only the work is imaginable through which you can be sure of the existence of God. Thus, this wonderful Universe, which is the work of the God, proves the existence of God but the analysis of Universe neither gives any information about God nor any information about the link of Universe with God. The Universe indicates the existence of God but neither gives the information of God nor the experience of God.

After realising the existence of God, you can experience God through some item of the creation into which God entered. The best item of the Universe is the human being through which you can experience God and also clarify your doubts with God directly. If God exist in every human being, every human being should clarify your doubts. In fact since you are also one of the human beings and since God is in yourself also, you should clarify your own doubts, which means that you should not get any doubt and therefore no human being should have any doubt. Therefore, God enters into a specific human being only like Krishna or Jesus etc., who can alone clarify all your doubts and through whom alone you can experience God.

ANIL ANTONY
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org
universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace

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If we are not God, God is not we. So why care?

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If God exist in every human being, every human being should clarify your doubts. In fact since you are also one of the human beings and since God is in yourself also, you should clarify your own doubts, which means that you should not get any doubt and therefore no human being should have any doubt. Therefore, God enters into a specific human being only like Krishna or Jesus etc., who can alone clarify all your doubts and through whom alone you can experience God.

Isnt this statement a little contradictory, god is in us all and therefore we will have no doubt and then you go on to say that people like jesus and krishna will wipe away all doubts.

Also are you saying that there is no visible reason why the universe is here or why in fact we are present so we will put the unknown down to “god”?

Ierrellus i totally agree if we are never to know anything about god why bother exploring the subject. Also if he is to make himself known in the forms of krishna and jesus etc how will we know it is in fact god and not something else, as we will never know anything about god or be able to experience anything of him why would we assume that it is god speaking to us through them?

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God is unimaginable and incomprehendable, and beyond logic, such absolute God comes in human form to give His perception. He is known as Human Incarnation. This entire universe is His creation only. This entire universe is His imagination or dream. Hence it is unreal with respect to Him. He enters into His dream as Human Incarnation to give His presence to us.

He is impartial and He comes down in human form in every human generation. His identification mark is the true divine knoweldge which removes all our doubts and induce love on Him.

The main aim of the human life is to please the Lord. All other activities are only side activities. He is available to you in this present generation.

My declaration as present human incarnation

From my side, I never declared that I am the human incarnation. I gave the spiritual knowledge. The devotees started telling that it is very special and never heard or present in any book. They started calling Me as Datta. Some of the devotees were pressing Me to show the miracles which were spontaneously expressed. Therefore, I stated that Datta possessed Me and gave this knowledge and also showed miracles. What is wrong in my statement? because this is the concept of any human incarnation. Gita says that God possess a human body for His divine mission. I did not believe or declare simply based on the words of devotees unless I had my own proof since I am basically a scientist. Science never denies the practical proof and it gives a logical explanation of any truth.

Such logical explanation coincides with scriptures and therefore the truth is constitutionally valid. When the devotees raised some points believing Me as human incarnation, I answered those points assuming that I am a human incarnation, because such points relate to any human incarnation in general. The answers are valid whether I am the human incarnation or not. Devotees have repeatedly stated that My knowledge is special and wonderful. This statement of devotees is the basis on which I developed the subsequent analysis. The special and wonderful knowledge can be given only by God as per Veda and Gita. This means that God entered my self and is speaking. When God enters the human body, that is the human incarnation as stated by Gita and Bible (Manusheem Tanum, God in flesh).

This does not mean that God has become the human body. God is in the human body. The concept of human incarnation is only this much. Such God given through human body to the devotees is called as Datta. This concept of double personality pacifies the jealousy of even higher devotees. They accept this and their jealousy is pacified. Even such higher devotees cannot tolerate if I say that I am the God. Even though Krishna told Arjuna that He is God, He also told in Gita that the God entered human body (Manusheem Tanumaasritam) and also clearly stated that God has not become the human body (Avyaktam Vyakti…). This means that the God present in the body of Krishna spoke “I am God” and this statement is not uttered by Krishna.

Arjuna was higher but not highest devotee. Gopikas were highest devotees, who believed that Krishna is God, who came down directly to the earth. Krishna made their belief become true because for them God pervaded all over the three bodies including the external gross body. God super imposed (Adhyasa of Sankara) Himself on the gross body as a human being super imposes His self on the gross body. In the case of God the super imposition is with knowledge due to necessity and in the case of human being the super imposition is due to ignorance. For them there is no need of any clarification and hence no need of Gita. But if that concept is revealed to Arjuna, Arjuna will totally reject it because he was a higher devotee and not the highest devotee.

The highest devotee is only one in millions. Higher devotees are many like Arjuna. Therefore, Gita is Universal and is not necessary for Gopikas. When Uddhava tried to preach the concept of this dual personality (God as possessor and the human being as possessed), Gopikas rejected him totally. Even this clarification does not pacify the jealousy of some people because they cannot tolerate even the presence of God in a particular human body only. They want the presence of God in their bodies also. This is the highest degree of jealousy. Since such highest jealousy is a common point to every human being, the Advaiti revolts against the human incarnation by generalizing that God is in every human body and gets the support of majority. This is the revolution and the formation of the union of people, who feel that they were suppressed.

This is communism revolting against capitalism. This is politics in philosophy. This is a special situation because philosophy enters every subject. The degree of philosophy (Ph.d.) can be taken in any subject. Therefore, you have philosophy in politics which is general and normal. Even though I also felt that this knowledge is wonderful, I never said it because it will be misunderstood by the ignorant people as self praise. Therefore, if the devotees stated this and if their statement is correct, there is no doubt that I am the human incarnation based on the concept of at least this dual personality as per the analysis related to higher level of devotees.

Such analysis can be extended even to the highest devotees, which prevents them from falling down to the higher level from their highest level. This concept of dual personality will at least fix the devotee to the higher level preventing from further fall. The people who fall down from this higher level also, believe God but not the human incarnation. They say that either no human being is God or every human being is God. Either the concept is totally rejected or is extended to every body. Let no body be rich or let every body be rich. There should not be one richest person. They hate the richest person and gradually they hate even any richer person. They want equality of every human being.

This is good in economics or sociology (Pravrutti). But the subject of spirituality (Nivrutti) is completely opposite to the subjects of the world (Durmeti Viparite Vishuchi–Veda). Sankara had to act like a communist even in the spirituality because in that time the country was filled with atheists of communist-psychology in pravrutti and for them Nivrutti was totally absent. Hanuman is also an incarnation of Siva like Sankara, but he followed the extreme capitalism in spirituality, which is quite opposite as said in Veda. The spiritual knowledge was given by Krishna to Arjuna, when Arjuna fell down on the feet of Krishna with complete surrender as a servant. Krishna said that one should become servant of Guru before receiving the spiritual knowledge (Tat Viddhi Pranipatena….).

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Ok putting aside the explanation of what you consider to be the incarnation of god and the dual personality, what i asked was if god is totally unimaginable and incomprihensable to humans how do you know that it is god speaking through you/a person? If you have no frame of reference for what god is how do you know it is in fact god?

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Is God schizophrenic or are we? The argument of trying to know something that is of a totally different order than what we are by faith or belief was Kierkegaard’s failure to save Kant from unhuman abstractionsim. Any prophet who preaches pie in the sky when you die or that we will only be completed in knowledge in some otherworldly afterlife, has already blasphemed against the integrity of what is. Nothing born good (Genesis) succumbs to corruption without the help of lies.

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Nifty! That’s good to know… :wink:

But, did you not just imagine the unimaginable since you cannot “know” it? What good comes from “knowing” this?

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The divine knowledge alone can be the proof of the God as per Veda. The exceptional quality of the divine knowledge (Prajnanam) is the spontaneous proof. You can experience the available highest quality of the knowledge and there is no need of any testing procedure for that. How are you selecting the Miss. World? You are experiencing the spontaneous beauty directly and there is no need of instruments to test the beauty. You are selecting the top most beauty in the available competition. If you say that some higher beauty may exist somewhere and some time in this world, the result of the competition can never be declared.

Only ugly sadists may tell like that. Gita says that the possessor of such top most knowledge that can give the most perfect guidance to the souls is God Himself (Jnanitvatmaiva…). The importance of Divine knowledge is only due to the importance of correct guidance in the spiritual path. For this the exhibition of miracle is not required. The exhibition of super power through the miracle is needed only for the low level atheists and to punish the low level devils. When a Police Officer is invited to address the college, he goes in normal civil dress. When he has to deal with criminals, he will be in the Police uniform. Even there, he will send his subordinates in the uniform to deal with the criminals. But he will not send his subordinates in uniform to address the college.

Similarly God comes to preach the Divine knowledge and sends His subordinates to exhibit miracles. Since majority is in the lower strata, the miracles have to be exhibited widely. Hence God gives the Super powers even to devils. The miracles include even the miraculous experiences in the life of any one, which prove the existence of unimaginable God.

Miracles and knowledge are the two requirements of people here in lower and higher levels respectively. Generally God meets directly the requirement of higher level. The liberated souls who are the servants of God generally meet the requirement of lower level.

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Also if he is to make himself known in the forms of krishna and jesus etc how will we know it is in fact god and not something else,

We can know by reading His word, examining His prophets who spoke about Christ thousands of years earlier, then examining the evidence of the miracles that Christ performed. God tells us htere will be many false Christs, people claiming to be Christ, however, these folks can claim it all they like, claim they’ve done miracles, but we have actual eyewitness accounts of the True Christ having done miracles in the presence of thousands- and htese weren’t just some obscure miracles like ‘healing someones aching back’ - these were full blown miracles. It basically boils down to whether you beleive the eye witness accounts of many or not, and whether or not you take the plunge and trust the God who said He is God- He promisses not to let you down, and hte personal relationship will give you enough evidneces in your own life personally that He will confirm His presence.

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When God enters the soul and body of His most beloved devotee (son of God), such devotee is called as the human incarnation. In the human incarnation, we find both God and Son of God mixed with each other in a perfect homogeneous state so that both are inseparable like the wire and the current in the live wire. The wire is the Son of God and current is God. The live wire is the human incarnation. The live wire must be treated as the current and there is no alternative way to experience the existence of current.

In this context, the misunderstanding arises. The live wire says that it is moving the fan. In fact, the current is speaking this through the wire. People misunderstand that the bloody wire is boasting about itself as itself moving the fan. The live wire looks like any other wire as far as the properties of the wire (metallic nature, leanness, etc.,) are concerned. This makes other wires to think that the live wire is also an ordinary wire without current, which is boasting about itself. This confusion lead to the crucifixion of Jesus by the public.

When Jesus claimed that He is the truth, the light and the Father of the heaven, this claim was not from the Son of God, but it was from God Himself. But, the observers have misunderstood this statement as that of Jesus. When the speaker is invisible, the mike looks as if it is speaking by itself. Here, at any time the speaker is not converted into mike or the current is not converted into wire. The two units exist separately even during the time of the human incarnation in which, both are homogeneously mixed to form a single phase. If this point is realized, Jesus might have escaped the crucifixion. It is this point, which is stressed by Mohammed. He said that God would never become human being or the vice-versa. This does not mean that the Son of God should not be treated as God in the human incarnation by the devotees.

If you deny this assumption of treating the Son of God as God, the devotees become dissatisfied because they prayed God for the experience of God and service to God. Then the very purpose of the human incarnation is lost. Mohammed clarified this concept to avoid the danger. But, His followers misunderstood that He denied the very concept of human incarnation. Thus Buddha and Mohammed should be taken as the preachers who warned about the reality of the concept to avoid the danger of loosing the highest fruit and punishing the human incarnation respectively. The followers have extrapolated the preaching and as a result, Buddhists thought that God does not exist and Muslims thought that the human incarnation does not exist.

The concept of human incarnation is introduced and explained well by Krishna in the Gita and Jesus in the Bible. Krishna says that God enters the human being and Jesus says that God is in flesh. This clearly means that God is neither the human being nor the flesh at any time. Buddha and Mohammed clarified the misunderstandings of the human beings about this concept. Buddha indicated God as unimaginable through silence and Mohammed indicated God as invisible. The desire to become God comes generally, when God is seen by eyes in human form. Generally, the concept of human incarnation is avoided only to avoid the birth of this desire to become God. When God is invisible, generally the human tendency is to get some benefit from the invisible God and not to become God. But, Alas! The Advaitin has not left even the invisible God! He wants to become even that invisible God! Why becoming God? He claims that he is already God. For this, he proposed that God is the invisible awareness (soul), which exists in his body mixed with qualities, which is called as the individual soul (jeeva). He proposed that simple filtration of qualities from the soul will yield the absolute God because according to him God is pure awareness without qualities. The Advaitin gave his own false concept of God and also his own false way to become God.

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The human incarnation is a replica of the divine Father. God is the divine Father and controls the creation (Mother). The creation is represented by female and God as male based on the ancient Indian tradition in which the female is always under the control of male. Manusmruti says that the female is controlled by the father in the childhood, by the husband in youth and by the son in the old age. Brahma, who created, controls the creation like father. Vishnu, who maintains, controls the creation like husband. When the creation comes to the end (Old age), Shiva controls the creation like son. But what about the son who is a replica of God i.e. the human incarnation? The son having the aspect of God is also the controller of the mother. But the son also has the other aspect of the human body that is delivered by the mother. Therefore he respects the mother always and when a rare occasion comes, he shows his male character and controls the mother. But such occasion is very rare and therefore the mother will not mistake her son. The same God having the male character controls the creation representing the female character always as the father, as the husband and as a son. Therefore the human incarnation always behaves as an obedient son of the mother only following all the rules of nature.

Krishna never showed any super power throughout the eighteen days of the war. He was following the rules of Prakruti (Mother) like an obedient son only. When a rare and inevitable occasion came to protect Arjuna, He hid the sun by His Maya and created a false sunset. This is violation of nature but the mother will not mistake for it. She knows that her son is in need of such violation since it is inevitable. She co-operates with her son. Thus the human incarnation is liked by both the Father and mother.

Whenever the human incarnation exhibits the super power, the nature also co-operates like mother to her son. Thus it is not treated as violation of the nature. The nature is not insulted here. Whenever there is a necessity of a miracle, it occurs spontaneously because the nature also co-operates with the son in the divine program. Even God does not like to violate the rules of the creation. Therefore the power of violation of the natural rules (Maya) is kept with the God only (Mayinam tu Maheshwaram –Gita). God as father or as husband or as son does not like to disturb the independent status of the nature. World is separated from God as an object of entertainment with individuality.

God gives equal status to the nature (Prakrutim Purushamchaiva –Gita). Same is the case with the son of God. He has the Maya limited to Himself only and does not like to exhibit it for name and fame. No son will insult his mother for his name and fame. Similarly, the father or husband towards the daughter or wife. When a situation of emergent requirement comes, even the mother, daughter, or wife will not mistake for the violation and in fact co-operates. This is the difference between the human incarnation and the human being on exhibiting super powers.

The demon always exhibits the super powers and insults the mother for his fame and supremacy. The mother will finally insult him in such a way that he is completely destroyed. Here also, the attitude is not revenge but transformation of the soul only. In the childhood, Krishna exhibited a series of miracles continuously because it was very much pressing emergency because His own life was under threat. If He does not save His own life, He cannot implement the divine program for which He has come down.

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Then how can you logically declare “we are not God”?
If you are to make any statement regarding God,
you obviously have some logical comprehension of him. :wink:

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Cool post! :sunglasses:

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Apparently one of us is… :laughing:

universal-spirituality.org/universalgod.htm

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To think that some people (such as yourself) are gullible enough to believe the crap you’re sprouting dattaswami.

There is no God. The world is not dreamed (see below). Belief is a poor substitution for knowledge gained from experience; To be honest, a believer is still in doubt.

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GOD: a short poem