The wiki describes atheists in terms of ‘weak and strong’ atheism I am still not clear about these terms. In another thread I talked about reincarnation, the soul, karma and the atheist.
In my own mind, before any study on this subject I always thought of an atheist (speaking about a personal atheist versus a natural atheist) as someone that does not believe in anything supernatural unless there is proof to their satisfaction that any claim is true.
But from my studies, the word atheist seems to apply more to those beliefs about gods, deities and theism than other supernatural events not pertaining to gods. Although each atheist seems to define the boundaries for themselves.
How do atheists mesh with their personal beliefs of superstitions, if any, with a ‘proof required’ belief system? Would a weak atheist be one that does not believe in any theist deity, yet can or does believe in other supernatural phenomena and superstitions? Or do the terms weak and strong atheists not apply to this line of thought at all. What are your thoughts about this?
BTW, currently I am an agnostic spiritualist freethinker.
I think a weak atheist is a guy who thinks that God probably doesn’t exist, because there’s no evidence. A strong atheist would be somebody who thinks that there’s definitely no God, and that God can’t possibly exist.
Both are close-minded. I don’t know if you were ever lame enough to watch “Trading Spouses” on Fox, but did you see the one with that “chubby” insane lady who was traded off to a couple non-believers? Man it’s so wild to see people so arrogant about their faith.
I mean I as a theist have chose salvation, I am convinced strongly that God exists. So does this make me strong theist? Are there any weak ones?
How do you categorize the two? I truly don’t believe anyone is totally weak or strong, they may lean toward one but the other will creep in from time to time.
What I dont understand is some of the ILP members get upset when you say God does exist, or Christianity is true, and then they claim to be strong atheists, or they probably would classify themselves as that, which is basically saying I know without a Doubt you are wrong, and I am right, but I will not tell you that.
And I guess that’s why atheism is so unappealing to me, it has nothing to do with helping people. It’s not a choice as some of you concluded, it’s like a curse. Or is it a choice? You know I really don’t know, half of you have confused the heck out of me. But If we are truly passionate about our beliefs, we must believe they are good ones, so why not share your good news with people? You do have some don’t you? Or not because it’s a hindrance and you wish you could be insane like all religious people? I truly want to know.
I don’t know that weak and strong are the best terms for atheism. Personally, I find negative and positive to be clearer, since you don’t tend to connote the strength of reaction with the stance. A weak atheist could have a strong reaction.
I personally am a negative (weak) atheist. I do not believe in the existence of a god. At the same time, I do not believe that it is impossible for a god to exist, nor do I believe in the non-existence of a god. I also recognize the complete unimportance of my own position on the question. That, and the fact that I could quite easily be wrong.
I believe this way because I think the question of whether or not god exists cannot be objectively demonstrated to be true or false. In other words, I refuse to make a claim that requires a burden of proof that I feel I cannot produce. As such, I restrict myself to my own personal belief on the question and will not claim that god does not exist.
I think the dispute ultimately cannot be settled in this life - we’ll just have to wait and see.
Well that point totally flew right over your head. Off the topic, atheist have no reason to help people, really no reason to do anything except for what they believe, and as I’ve discussed before no ultimate purpose so ultimately your choices don’t matter in the random universe. But back on the topic, atheism has nothing to do with helping people in the sense that it has no good news, atheist don’t share their beliefs because they don’t help people, and they know this. If atheism was better than religious beliefs, if it perhaps made you happier in that regard, then why not share it? That was what my whole post was about but you took it out of context.
Once again you are placing everyone into a neat little category to fit your taxonomy. I will reiterate that many sects of Buddhism and Hinduism are atheistic. And atheism can certainly help people perhaps more so than religion. Religions of the West for many centuries were not helpful to anyone who were not of wealthy status. While Atheism places the emphasis on the individuals aka humanism as the key to advancement.
Many people will tell you that being an atheist is a liberating experience. And I whole heartedly agree.
Do buddhist believe there is something more than what is seen? I’m pretty sure they do. Maybe we need to recheck that though, however most atheist don’t believe in anything supernatural even if it’s not God,but you disagree, why?
Religion doesn’t place emphasis on individuals? I should have just stuck with my religion, Christianity, than all religions. Christianity is about helping people, showing them the truth, so they don’t go to an eternity in hell where we will all go if unsaved. Most people will tell you a belief that hope exists is an even more liberating experience.
I’m not sure how atheism can ever be more liberating than believing we have ultimate purpose. Christians believe in facts, atheist believe in facts, Christianity provides hope, Atheism doesn’t. Atheism lacks. Because atheism isn’t anything. Atheism has so many restrictions. Atheism leads to nihilism. Atheism has nothing beneficial to offer because atheism isn’t anything.
So back to my point. If atheism doesn’t try to persuade and it’s a good thing, then atheists are being selfish or careless when they don’t try to persuade others into their beliefs, or maybe they dont’ have enough faith in what they believe to be true. And if there is nothing good about atheism, than there is no reason to help persuade people into atheism, because this would be deceptive and cruel. So concluding, if atheism is a good thing, which I contend you will say, then why not share the good news. But from what I gather you will say it’s not good or bad, it’s nothing, thus it has no Good news to share. And even if you say it does, as I’ve stated there is no common purpose, it’s individual. If atheism helps someone feel better, than great, but more times than not atheism will lead people to nihilism, because the sad truth is, if it’s true there is no ultimate purpose for your life, you are just stuck in a dream, you’ll suffer, you’ll be happy, but you’ll never wake up to remember any of it, and neither will the universe.
And this is why you hear people say, I wish I could believe what you believe, but I just can’t. Basically that’s saying, your happy, I wish I could be happy, but I can’t see whats not there and someone who sees things that arent there is an insane person. So basically I wish I could be happy and insane like you. Problem with a statement like this is that it’s a false idea of faith, faith is more than believing what isn’t there. So, if you can give that to people, than can have happiness and at the same time not feel like they are insane.
Buddhists do believe there is far more than what is seen. BUT many of them also believe that there is no God. Hence my entitlement of atheist. And since
I am simply saying that when you throw all atheists into the same pot you get the same problem if I were to throw all the theists into the same pot. Many atheists do believe in supernatural BECAUSE a large percentage of atheists come from Hindi, Daoist, or Buddhist backgrounds.
Religion was copyrighted by the RC Church for a very long time. Salvation was their’s to give and take away. It was about who was wealthy enough to understand the religion. Christianity is about saving the self and when one tries to convert others I personally feel that is becomes malevolent. For instance, look at Africa. Since Africa was introduced to Christianity far more lives have been lost and in my opinion the worst thing; culture.
Those people who cling to hope feel as if they can’t control themselves. But rather things are out of their hands and in the hands of a malcontent God who if you don’t believe in you shall suffer for eternity. Liberation is knowing that your life is in your own hands. If you feel happy with your life not in your hands so be it. But from my Eastern perspective I am quite content to be in control of my thoughts and actions and relinquish my control to no one.
Again with the over generalizations. Buddhists, Daoist, and Hindus have Ultimate Purpose without a god. Atheism provides hope that we are in control of our lives and not an invisible entity, or even that through meditation we can escape samsara. Atheism is just a word much like God. And carries just as much substance in many’s mind. What restrictions does Atheism have? Atheism does not lead to nihilism. Despair leads to it and despite your prejudice towards Atheism, you are vastly misinformed. Atheism is not your cup of tea I understand; but for you to be a judgmental kid does not help in any way.
So, because Christians push their religion they are being noble? I do not understand where you get these notions of what life as an atheist is. Or maybe many of the atheists you have encountered are simply so tired of people preaching to them they find it immoral to preach their ideas. Or maybe it is just because they just don’t want to. This is no way would denote selfishness. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Selfish is believing that your path to happiness is the only true one, while something else might make others happy. But since you are so self-righteous you try to push upon them what you think they should be.
Where did I say it has no good news? Or that it is “nothing”? You wish to speak as if you are world traveled and wholly enlightened but it appears to me you are highly insecure about your own faith. Therefore you speak very poorly of that which opposes your stance. Frankly, I believe you have a “hard-on” for attacking atheism because you can never hope to understand it. The good news is one is free to live there life without the oppressive idea of a God.
Show me that Atheism leads to nihilism; especially from the perspective of the Eastern thought. Hindu’s believe that those believe in god are separating themselves from Bhrama and Atman not realizing that they are complicating themselves and seperating themselves from Moksha. The main purpose is still enlightenment, aka the Ultimate Purpose. And who is to say this dance has a purpose? Perhaps even after your worshiping you will awaken as if you never toiled away praying.
I know I am not insane and am more than content with my place in my head
I see your point, but I don’t see sense in disbeleiving in a God or God’s, and believing there is a supernatural force, however, this would be perhaps a form of weak atheism, and technically you are correct.
I see your point. But I still believe you can have full control over your life, and still believe someone else controls it as well. If you really want to feel you have full control as a believer, you can do this, but it will not leave you satisfied. This is why I have strong faith in the bible because it’s teaching do have good ramifications if you follow them down. And yes I understand what you will reply with, so don’t take the time to tell me you can do the same without Religion. But if you are controlled by biblical rights and wrongs, I would be living just as good as if I took them as serious values I should live by even unreligiously.
Ok, yes. You can have an ultimate purpose without a God if there is an ultimate purpose. I should have been more specific. I’m only saying again most atheist will discard the supernatural, and if they do keep it they should be weak atheists and not rule out the God factor as if it’s not possible.
And you have yet to fully understand theism. I can say everything the same back to you. Heck! I probably don’t understand atheism, because there is nothing to understand! LOL
My mistake, strong atheism leads to nihilism, there. Not the hinduists and buddhists and so forth who believe other supernatural things but I find it only stupid then to be arrogant enough to say a God can’t exist. Most atheists, to whom I was orginally speaking toward, follow darwinism, natural things, not supernatural things. And I dont’ see the connection of strongly believing no reasonable God can exist but yet I will believe in an afterlife that is quite possibly a never ending debt. I think you need to read my unpopular post about influential perception, you’ll understand what I mean.
Campbell discussed an exchange between a westerner (possibly himself, I don’t recall) and a Shinto priest. The westerner said that he had seen all the wonderful rituals of the Shinto faith, and seen their beautiful dances – but he knew little of their theology, of their purpose.
The Shinto priest looked at him and said, “Geee, I’m not too sure we have a theology or a purpose. We dance.”
The idea of the story is (naturally, this is from Campbell) that we ultimately create our own meaning by living in the moment and in harmony with ourselves and the world around us. The idea of theology and of an outside purpose is to take a metaphor literally. The purpose is you.
“Man against nature. Nature against man. Strange religion!” Was the start of Suzuki’s description of Christianity. He goes on to say how strange he finds the idea of man against God, God against man, God against nature, nature against God.
I’ve got another clever definition of atheisms. A strong atheist has lots of muscle, and a weak one is just nerdy. But I’m not done! It’s much more profound as I get ready to over generalize. A strong atheists being muscular is more prone to pride, therefore never thinking he’s wrong, therefore actually being a strong atheist! And the weak atheist, the nerdy dude, has studied more, and contends that he’s pretty darn sure, but he’s not yet ready to make such an absolute, because, he is wise enough to know he could always be wrong.
He said “Ultimate Purpose†which I took to mean beyond this life in response to Club29’s assertion that Christianity gives an idea for a meaning and consequence beyond the grave. Satori suggests that there is a meaning analogous to this and I simply wanted to know what he thought personally and how this meaning can be sustained without an outside source or absolute reference.
If you can explain this with eastern philosophies then please do, as I would be interested to know.
Their Ultimate Purpose is to become one with Brahma and dissolve the Shroud of Maya (Hinduism). While Buddhists wish for a similar idea the names change and the sect of Buddhism I am most familiar with is Zen. Zen Buddhists seek to attain “satori” or enlightenment through meditation. This emptying of the illusionary life is there Ultimate Purpose. All of this is done without a God, hence the entitlement of Atheist.
I said that the religions believe said Ultimate Purpose. I do believe you are trying to bait me. Let it be known that to me there is a difference between studying religions like I do and believing them to be true. But anyways in this case the outside source are books like the Vedas or sutras.
