Western society hates dependency.

Western society hates dependency, but loves independence, why is this?

Does that mean Western society hates children, because children are dependent?
Does that mean Western society hates black people when they were slaves, because they were dependent?
Does that mean Western society hates women when they were slaves to their husbands, because they were dependent?

Let’s really investigate this. I want to argue on behalf of dependency and slavishness. I want to say that independence is wrong and evil, but dependency is right and good. Children shouldn’t be hated because they are dependent on adults. They should be promoted, instead. Children should learn how to depend on others. An adult who learns to depend on others is good, not disgusting.

Disabled people are good, not wrong. Dependency is a virtue. People should learn to depend on each other, as adults. People who believe in independence and individualism should be doubted.

how many threads do you need on the same subject?

This should be the last one. My previous thread was about women being dependent on men. This thread is about Western society general hatred of dependency.

Dependency seems disgusting to most. But, isn’t it actually a great virtue? Isn’t it great for a man to depend on a woman, and a woman to depend on a man?

Isn’t it great for a child to depend on his or her parents?

Why do some people from societies other than West think that everyone in the West thinks the same?

Some people in the West, myself included, think independence is impossible. My ideas are influenced by Eastern philosophy and common sense. Those ideas travel beyond borders.

Your cultural bias is disgusting.

I think that you are conflating hating dependency with hating those who are dependent. Those are different things, although often conflated.

Both hatreds have been inspired by sociological movements involving competing races and their ideologies. The world is pretty complex.

In an effort to get people arguing, disagreeing more often, people are often inspired to hate something natural about other people. Concepts are then used as the focus of the thing to hate, knowing that the people will end up hating each other and not really even knowing why. Then in the midst of such contesting, a mediator gets to choose who he wants to be the more successful.

Just remember, somebody made the pillow you sleep your head on. Or somebody made the machine that made that pillow. In any case, the pride of the independent is something that helps them sleep at night. A lifestyle of independence does not erase the dependence of survival. Or even existance.

“Quit breathing my air!” haha. Where do I end and you begin?

Atthet,
What religion are you?
Have you been deserted by someone?
Are you living alone without friend or family?
What is your native culture or the culture you most identify with?
How many happy relationships have you had with females?

I’m guessing a culture where you whistle at women on the street.

Ever think puberty disabled?

Atthet,

Do you really wish to have your mommy wipe your bottom after you go poo poo? Dress you? Tie your shoe laces? Feed you pablum with a spoon?

As a parent, your responsibility is to aid and guide your children toward independence. You won’t live forever, so who will care for your dependent child? It has nothing to do with western ideas. Independence is taught to each succeeding generation every place on the planet. There is a difference between dependency and cooperative behaviors. We say that we “depend” on a spouse, a family member, the community, etc. But that is simply saying we need consistent predictable behaviors from others. Kris “depends” on her spouse, but if something happened and he was no longer present, she would be more than capable of getting through her life independently.

It’s a wonderful ideal to think that we should all contribute to the well being of others, but dependency? I don’t want anyone dependent on me. I raised three children to their independence. Been there done that. That was my contribution to humanity and my society. I still contribute to others as I choose within my capabilities, but I don’t want anyone “dependent” on me. I’m too busy being independent.

That’s what I’m talking about, tentative.

You said that parents teach their children to become independent, why is this? Why not teach children to become dependent? There are families in Japan who live together, and adults take care of their grandparents. I think this is cute and admirable. I like the idea of a family being together, dependent, instead of independence and individuality. Independence breeds hatred for everybody else. Dependence breeds love.

If you are old and disabled someday, and cannot take care of yourself, wouldn’t you want your children to take care of you instead of strangers and crazy people at the senior home?

Has it occurred to you that if everyone is dependent then who holds it together? I think you’re overstating the value of dependence. I have no problem wth extended family cooperation, neighborhood and community service to others, or any other form of people taking care of people. But erasing individuality isn’t only extreme, it flies in the face of any historical accounting of human behavior. Like it or not, us - them has been instrumental in societal development. Being organized into a cohesive social grouping is all that allows us to rise above primitive family/clan relationships. Nothing promotes organization faster than the need to protect US from THEM. This doesn’t mean that any society ever get’s it “right”. Yes, eastern cultures emphasize family and state over individualism, but that is a superficial observation. China and Japan were built upon multiple layers of class distinction and many of those “classes” still exist today. The extended family tradition was dominant in the U.S. until the end of WWII and still is practiced in some of our rural areas.

Every individual, every family, every culture could certainly do a better job of taking care of one another, but individualism isn’t going to wither away any time soon. In fact, as population continues to grow and resources become more costly to obtain, individualism will increase.

The meme will be the same as we saw in the 80’s. “Fuck you, I’ve got mine, you get yours”.

So, are you agreeing with me?

The issue has never really been dependency versus independency. Everyone who knows anything knows that everyone is dependent on friends of some kind. The real issue has been upon whom one is to be dependent.

Are women to be dependent upon the male they freely choose and love? Or upon the government that they never really know or see? If you convince the women that they should be independent of men and display every conceivable flaw in males, they end up actually being dependent upon the government. It is an issue of a government having an agenda that it isn’t supposed to have and taking over the family so as to be able to dictate the genetics and mindset of tomorrow.

Deception works… for a while… long enough to murder and get away with it.

I see that this is what you want to argue, but I notice that you’re not doing so. A constant, persistent reassertion…is not an argument.

I feel like you’re kind of being disrespectful to people here by making threads over and over about the same topic, not defending, or even really articulating a position, and then when you begin to fail at addressing the posts that others make, you just kinda make a new thread and start over.

Bad manners will fuck anything up. Maybe you have a point or something, but if you don’t make it, but instead just spam your belief everywhere it kinda makes it hard to get people to come over to your view.

Dependency can never be a virtue and here’s why — dependency = weakness, nature abhors weakness.

I wouldn’t want to be a slave, nor an adult/child, no one would.

Hmmm, that being said, I might make an exception for children, independence is a vice for children (that’s not to say children passed the age of about 5 should be completely helpless, either) . If a child too readily wanders off on his own, or doesn’t listen to his parents, he could endanger his life. If a child were to have strong inclinations towards independence, his instincts should be partly curtailed, overrided by his parents discipline. Independence can be re-introduced in bits and pieces as he physically and neurologically matures.

I think what Atthet is calling for, or what he should be calling for in any case, is increased interdependency (mutually beneficial and reliant relationships), not dependency (one-sided or parasitical relationships). He wants to lay down his life for another, be it his girl, family or friends, and he expects to receive the same treatment in kind. Although western societies are becoming less and less like this… well, at least until the turn of the 21st century, as economic pressures are forcing families to become increasingly codependent, there’s no good reason why certain families or individuals with eccentric (for the day) personalities, morals and values, can’t live according to their own standards rather than accept the status quo.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both independence and interdependence. The problem with indepence is when the going gets tough, you’ll have difficulty asking for help, but the advantage is, you can’t be taken advantage of, you won’t get cheated, chinced or swindled, for nobody sabotages their own lives intentionally. Another advantage/disadvantage depending the circumstances and how you see it, is independence tends to be conducive to a more frugal, simple life with few trappings and complications where as interdependency tends to be conducive to an abundance of interactions along with all the potential goods and services stemming from those interactions. In actuality, humans are the most interdependent species on the globe, think about it, someone else made my hot cocoa today, think how many people, exchanges and transactions went into making the clothes I wear, the food I eat, and all the things I own.

my only concern is that excessive or unrequited interdepency can lead to depression, jealousy and rage. If you become obsessed with someone, if you put all you eggs in one basket sort of speak, instead of finding hobbies, interests and value outside of that one person, if this person ultimately ends up rejecting you, you could become extremely emotionally frustrated and jealous. Sure, it may make your love all the more special, but there’s risks involved. There’s nothing inherently wrong with this sort of all encompassing devotion, so long as you’re careful and it’s mutual, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round.

Three things.

One, make sure the person holds the same morals and values as you, especially regards to strong family values. You might want to try a mail order bride from eastern Europe or Asia, as many of these women still have more traditional family values, fidelity, loyalty, and all the rest, or an old fashioned country girl might be right up your alley.

Two, there’s no such thing as altruism, if you demand a lot from them, unless you want a relationship that’s abusive and based on fear, you have to be willing to give a lot back. These women can be very demanding, they want a man who’s willing to work their ass off to provide a living for his family, if any children should show up.

Three, If relationships are this important to you, all or nothing kind of ventures, then don’t take it lightly, make sure the person is the one for you in, not in everyway, because there’s no such thing as everyway, but in most ways, most ways that count to you.

No I’m not agreeing with you. Independence is part of being adult. A whole person forms all sorts of alliances, bonds, and loves in the interaction with others. The dependence you have presented is a weakness not a strength. It’s the “Me Tarzan, you Jane” sort of weak dependence. I want people to be around me because they choose to be, not because they are dependent on me. That’s much different than anything you’ve presented.

Something you might consider: A person dependent on another isn’t capable of being dependable. But the way you started with Maia, perhaps that’s what you want, which is just control disguised as “love”.

Don’t put your money on that one.

Please point me to the truly independent being. Where does such absolute freedom exist? It doesn’t, however, some individuals maintain a perception that indepedence is a way to live. Joke. Fooling themselves with, I don’t know, skills that supposedly separate them from the unskilled. They will be buried with a candy bar wrapper. It will feed the worms just as much as their exclusive body.