Ellsworth Toohey: Mr. Roark, we’re alone here. Why don’t you tell me what you think of me in any words you wish.
Howard Roark: But I don’t think of you.
But, of course, we know that she does. In fact, sometimes it seems that’s all she thinks about. Being another objectivist, I’m guessing.
You despise ben and his meanness, his petty manipulations, his words that are designed to hurt. Your anger wether you see it or not, turns you into that which you despise. I believe a man named Jesus lived. I also believe in many of his ethics. I know that peace was his belief. Anger and retribution were last resorts and to be abhorred as toxic. And it is. It is affecting you, I dearly wish you would examine yourself for your sake, not anyone else.
See, and that is why I called you a pretender. You do not know God, you do not know me and what you see lies to you as you lie to your self about God. I have already said many times over that my anger is my enemy; but that anger becomes justified in certain situations at certain times; especially in the growth and development of something better. Who are you to say that a person is becoming what they despise just because they show a bit of anger and outrage? Such is a form of expression and one I have moved past in plain sight more than once. Through losing my anger and using it, I came to see the value of not losing it; as I was becoming self aware enough to realize I was my own enemy.
The fact that you would say such a thing to me as that at such a point in time as you did. You lack a true connection with God, so how could you know? You think? Think what you want to think; you are a pretender. I am not angry in this moment nor was I angry in the posts and moments leading up to when you posted. I was calm, and you could tell the difference in how I presented my self and my words.
You call your self a loving and caring person and yet you miss such signs because you don’t care or love enough pay attention enough to the signs that are there. A pretender; who does not know God. And you tell me I am becoming something I despise while I become something better than it. You have a long way to go. Please, look at your self for how you reacted to this.
Even Jesus lost his temper once or twice; and to be frankly honest, life back then without the internet probably was a lot better and less of a motivation to be angry, If he had truly seen such heresy toward God in the modern age by the church and everyone else, he would have been flat-out out-raged. He would have moved on from it, though; after making several good points.
You cannot know what the man would do in a new situation. But, if I had to guess, I think that he as a philosophical mind would show patience and out think the offenders. If a person does not follow that religion or sect , then no heresy is committed. Even Jesus had to understand that not all are meant to follow one.
Yeah, within a reasonable amount of possibilities, I can know; based on everything that is able to be observed and learned from in the world around me and within myself. I could know how that man would react to a new situation based on what is presented of the old situations; based on what must be true for him to have taken the path he did; and I can know this because of the path I took. No kidding, I never said to follow religion, did I? No, I have pointed out several times already on this forum that Jesus Christ advocated against religion and was marked as a heretic for it. There doesn’t need to be any religion. It’s just common sense for life. I’m not trying to make people follow religion. You are jumping to conclusions based on things I have not said instead of looking at what I have said. You’re a lot more close-minded than you think you are and biased. You probably have a lot of secrets. In fact, I would guarantee for every nice face you show; deep inside is a raging bitch; just the same as anyone else. You know better than to just assume shit like that.
Dan~ thank-you but, it is ok.
Actually I think I was unclear. So fault will be taken by me.
I can and do rage inside, it is a natural part of me (I am a redhead after all ). I do let it out from time to time as a tool but, mostly I cuddle it up in a corner and put calmness in charge.
Id, I was not intentionally refering just to this thread or just me. The question about pretender was though.
Anger does not have to be felt. It is at times a mindset.
You don’t see it, you don’t feel it. Yet others do. Nuances, changes , the way words are put together. If people are face to face, body language.
If I misread,then my apologies. But, I do not pretend.
Sometimes we come to know who we are by seeing who we are not. You’re not so much the visionary - if you were, you would not have made this statement. I think you can only know this in hindsight. The possibilities are sometimes endless because they change and are made anew.
Aside from that, i do see you as someone who is trying to bring meaning to your life, to discover your own raison de etre. But you won’t do it if you think you have everything down pat and yourself all figured out. And you have to stop spitting into the wind an just run with it.
You’re also an up-hill climber. But you have to remember that at times we do slide down. There can be things responsible for this but it’s not always the fault of the guy climbing next to you. I’d say that you actually have a mountain to climb but you won’t see what’s around you - in reality - untll you get closer to the top.
Someone may be a pagan, I, but at the same time, if there even is a god, one like the judaic/christian god, that someone, that pagan, may have a truer connection to that god than one who is a believer even.
And kriswest IS one of those people who even not believing in a god might just be more god-like (whatever that means) or divine than others…because she is more humane in her humanness than many others…though not perfect.
You are doing the same thing to kriswest which you accuse her of doing.
As for what she said before - Carl Jung said it. What he said was that we often become the thing we fight the most. This is because we are very often really unconscious of what drives us, what motivates us and what daemons we fight within which we don’t want to come face to face with. We don’t often see our true intention which is not always our conscious one. This is where self-honesty and striving for self-awareness comes in. it’s all part of that process/that journey, which you would call seeking the holy grail.
This is why people who "study’ evil - philosophers/academics, have to be careful and aware that they don’t become so susceptible to it.