What does it mean to be in sin?

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

One is not a sinner merely by virtue of one’s flesh being in sin. Rather, what is most important in the eyes of God is that one desires to do good, that one tries to do good. Indeed, Saint Paul the Apostle himself confessed and stated the following in his letter to the Christians of Rome:

[size=95]For I know that there dwelleth not in me, that is to say, in my flesh, that which is good. For to will, is present with me; but to accomplish that which is good, I find not.
For the good which I will, I do not; but the evil which I will not, that I do.
Now if I do that which I will not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
I find then a law, that when I have a will to do good, evil is present with me.
For I am delighted with the law of God, according to the inward man:
But I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my mind, and captivating me in the law of sin, that is in my members.
Unhappy man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
The grace of God, by Jesus Christ our Lord. Therefore, I myself, with the mind serve the law of God; but with the flesh, the law of sin.
-Romans 7:15-25[/size]

In the end and before God, one is to be judged by his conscious actions and not by the forces within himself which drive him to act. Truly, even those corruptible men who have turned the truth of God into a lie are only sinners in that regard to the extent that they have willfully descended to corruption.

2

It would be curious to know examples of what evil Paul did that he did not will… I assume he also did good that he did will, and successfully willed away from evil as well, and that he unintentionally did good, perhaps even willfully did evil?.. such that his “law” that evil is present in the will to do good is equally a comment on the occasional difficulty in evaluating whatever one is doing. Insofar as he glorifies the mind and denegrates the body, he at once seems to give free reign to be corporeally corrupt… in fact, virtually presumes this will occur. I wonder how many pedophile priests have read this one over and over, like a mantra…

3

Thanks for the well considered response Oughtist. Paul also says that in relation to how he works his body and what it produces in himself, there is much he does not understand. Could it be that living strictly by the law of God inevitably leads to corporeal corruption? I don’t know, but it’s worth a thought.

4

I would like to challenge that statement.

Although I agree that “trying to do good” is in itself good, to think that it is the highest concern of God seems improper.

“The road to Hell is paved with good intentions”.

It has been proven time and time again, that merely trying to do good or desiring to do good doesn’t actually achieve good. So the first question to ask is one of syntax; did you mean to say that God’s highest concern was that a person desires to do the things that are actually good? Or did you mean that despite them not really knowing good from bad (the state of all homosapians), merely them wanting to do what they thought was good, is God’s primary concern?

I would think that a higher concern of God would be that people attempt to discern true good from misleading good intentions and THEN desire to do the “true good”.

If that is the case, I would like to point out that I have yet to discern a single homosapian that has ever done that. Although I DO place Jesus as being the closest and if not murdered, no doubt would have corrected the slight misunderstandings of his immediate disciples.

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Jesus and the Saints give the best guide as to what it means to do good. If one knows and lives by the truth of God, which they describe, one blesses even the most distant future.

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I’ll take you one higher than that.
Desire creates nothing in and of itself.
Sometimes desire is simply an excuse to avoid the will which it takes to actually do the good…and goes no further than that.
But it is important to discern what is really true good and does not harm - at least what IS beneficial, and that in itself can be as difficult as using our will to brings that to fruition.

7

Sin is discerned by the affect upon the momentum of harmony.

If that momentum is increased, good is accomplished. The degree of good depends on the degree of increase in momentum of harmony. If opportunity is available to increase but that increase is not willed, one has not accomplished the aim of life and has thus still sinned (laziness is a sin).

The mathematical measure of good and thus of sin, is accomplished by the integral sum of the total harmony of life. That integral sum is the area under the curve of total joy during life. The longer one lives, the more opportunity for joy (inner harmony). Thus an “eternal heaven” is always the goal, having eternal life of pure joy.

Everything that detracts from that is sin.

Evil is the opposite of “to l.i.v.e” - “e.v.i.l”. To do evil is to sin, to oppose life, to refuse the effort/spirit to survive in harmony.

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Being in sin is an unrepentant mind over a trespass against another.

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^This.

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Evil is really the opposite of to “l.o.v.e.”
Every evil thing in the world, when looked at, has been brought about/has its origins/roots from a refusal to love.
Every evil thing that a person does is because he or she refuses to love or has been refused love.

So sin may be looked on as a refusal to love or even as being - ''sin" which is the Spanish word for ‘without’ - as being “without love”.

And one may say that “a lack of love” opposes life and it’s striving towards a loving will and spirit to become perfect harmony.

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Ups to Dominic for dissing the evil moral machine but is that really enough to appease my completely immoral need? 'Cos I reckon truly moral people feel the same way I do and I got ethics to die for and styles to match. :sunglasses:

12

Yes, the “moral” and “immoral” people both have the same inclinations regarding Sin.

The difference is in the both the Reaction to Sin and the Repression of Sin.

That is why “Self Control” is so important, philosophically and religiously.

13

For the most part but what’s unethical about pre-marital sex free of fornication for example? Man’s need for an entrenched and well defined code really does stink when u remember there are no true exceptions just pardons that need to be explained.

Agreed. I think we all know by now that the meek truly do inherit the Earth. :sunglasses:

14

The fundamental problem about “amoral” sex, sex without morality, is it’s mostly Decadent and Hedonistic. Young men should be planting their seeds, not wasting them. This is standard in Romanism. Your goal, with sex, is to multiply. Everytime you have sex, should be towards this goal. To dispute Procreation, and accept Hedonism, marks our Sin. Yes, no Man is perfect. Yes, we Men have the sexual urge all too often. But, that does not excuse Morality.

Once you accept that all Orgasms should Procreate life, then you will necessarily understand the importance of Marriage and Morality. Because if you go around having sex with women, having countless children, then eventually, these decisions will come back to “get” you.

And young virgin girls are the Property of their fathers. They are owned, like a piece of furniture, or a car. The thing is, Western “Feminism” has attempted to erase this history of ours, by claiming that women are not “Property”. But they are. It’s obvious. Because if women weren’t property (of a Married father), then we could go around having endless sex, and overpopulating the world. But some people are “against” this. These people are those who hate themselves, and hate sex. They hate what sex is about, and that is, Procreation not Pleasure.

Westerners have forgotten that God beget all Man. And so this shows that God made sex for Procreation, not Pleasure. That doesn’t mean that you need to have 100% procreative sex, but that should become the goal of any Good Roman. Your goal, as a Roman, is to only Procreate, and to repress the need for sexual pleasure, decadence, and hedonism. This requires controlling your sexual urges, and directing them toward Procreation, as this is your Future, and the Future of all Man.

Women don’t think about these types of things, because they aren’t very bright to be honest. I don’t know why God made women lesser than Man…but that is just the way it is I guess. Who am I to question God??

15

Im pretty sure having 10 kids and not being able to feed them would be a bigger sin than slipping on a condom whenever you get horny. I’m not sure, just taking a wild guess.

the greek word porneia is translated sexual immorality, more associated with pagan sex cults and bestiality, etc., but the churches tend to lump premarital sex in there also.

also, there is really no excuse for peadophilia because priests could opt to have sex with hookers or use internet porn instead of prebubescent children. thats an obvious derp right there

discipline is a gradual process and cant be expected to be perfected overnight

16

Who is it trespassing against, if two people live together without being married (“living in sin”)? Is it a trespass against other people’s narrow-mindedness?

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I think the reality is that the whole planet has gone to shit. I can’t imagine a worse period of human history to be living in than right now. North America and Europe are about to get obliterated, and we’ve basically succeeded in turning the planet into a living hell. We are basically annihilated by a government of slave tyranny. I wouldn’t be surprised if this whole fuckin thing gets blown away at any second. At this point sin is just assimilating the entire world like Agent Smith in the Matrix.

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:laughing: Now what’s the other side of that coin - because if you don’t see one, what you say above dissolves into nothingness.
perhaps it’s time for you to change your username. :wink: O.K

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The other side of the coin is embracing Death. The realm of death is the final frontier. But yeah, I wouldnt shed too many tears if this entire hellpit dissolved into oblivion.

: Plus we all pay taxes or receive money from governments that systematically kill and tyrannize unfathomable multitudes of human beings. So we all seem to be drenched in human blood. It’s just one big hellacious cesspit that there seems to be no escape from…

20

Paul does strongly suggest that strict virtu belongs to the truth of God, but not every order of God’s Providence within the temporal correlates with that of Heaven on this matter. What constitutes a Sodomite in the eyes of man is various throughout the ages, the required level of virtu an individual must practice to avoid condemnation by man in the name of God is sometimes very meagre and raises questions as to whether under certain conditions the failure to strictly embrace virtu as Paul suggests constitutes mere venial sin, that is, excusable in the eyes of God.