Whatever ‘it’ is, I just want to know, what the fuck do you want from us, from life, the world and what do you think you can achieve? …even if its impersonal, surely it wants something, even the desire to ‘let it be’ ~ to just let stuff happen, that’s still something it has to build to.
…and why would it want that!
Why does it expect us to deal with all the crap that ends up in our heads.
How dare it create [if it’s a creator] this world that I am born into it.
If there is no ‘it’ why isn’t there? Does that make us ‘it’.
IT is an assumption. Speculation is not what the brain is designed to do. Conjectural thinking puts you in an awkward position among others who know IT in a way that is in contradiction to the way you know IT.
I am pretty sure our brains are designed to speculate. In any case they have this ability, in case there are any quibbles around the meaning of ‘designed’. This ability can be both a strength and a weakness.
To try to work this out in the mental verbal portions of the mind leaves one with numerous possibilities: it was an accident, curiosity, it was an experiment, to see little things suffer, to get some company, because IT is the universe…I am sure we could brainstorm hundreds more rather fast.
The way I see it there is either a conscious intellect out there or a non conscious one, either way its still intelligent! We could see the latter as like a computer like intellect, which for me presents the same problem or more so, a non conscious intellect would perhaps create a less harmful environemnt? This because it would have no wisdom agendas like e.g. a desire to give us and nature freedom, rather than make it even partially like puppets.
We could indeed. The way I am using the term here is such that we may only need assume an ‘it’, whatever that is the way it works in the world is all that counts to us, irrespective of weather or not it is a good god or whatever. See also above.
Its not hard to believe but it is - if I may, impossible to consider as correct. There is a universe of information out there and it communicates, a small amount of math about a few objects would mean intelligence in us. Thus I assume intelligence because thats what information communicating in patterns is. As I say it may not be conscious but it must surely be intelligent or something to that effect, massive universal and locally interacting processes etc.
Communicates implies intention. I don’t think that’s the case.
Says who? You’re operating under a lot of assumptions here.
First of all, if it is not conscious then you just answered your own question. An unconscious something can’t want something from you. But still why are you attributing intelligence to matter? And dark matter? Doesn’t make any sense.
IT wants nothing IT does not exist. What do you want is far more important, go get it, and stop worrying about IT. If IT exists IT probably hates you anyway.
The kind of answer I would usually give but I think this forum has softened me.
To quote Mikhail Bakunin, if God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish Him.
The majority of entities in the world is having a good time. The forces constituting the world you’re part of are in general consensus on one thing: existing is better than not existing. Find the part of you that agrees to exist and you’ll understand what “it” is thinking.
Find the “it” in your motives, the only way to understand.
Computers communicate without there being something like a consciousness with intent. Neurons communicate with each other in a similar manner [though naturally sometimes they communicate as the conscious network].
The definition of ‘communicates’ is critical here, but I don’t think we have much of a definition as yet, we simply use the term itself as the definition of information working in relationships, but there is so much more imho.
that’s what is occurring in our brains; sets of informations are relating to one another [that’s what I meant by patterns], that in itself is not an assumption.
No I have left myself in the sage philosophical position where we don’t know either way so both options are left open.
Intelligence and matter have something to do with one another in our brains, no?
An automaton/robot could want something from you without being conscious.
Dark matter?
Every aspect of the universe [and beyond] has information about itself and communicates, objects derive from an informational background as that is the only way one can resolve the philosophical conundrums involved in arriving at object, not to mention that on the most subtel level such as the quantum superposition, we cannot even determine what state matter is in, thus its too fluid to be objects on the subtle level.
Lol indeed. Would a universal network of information be entire ~ an ‘it’? can we break it down further without those compartmentalised networks communicating and hence being part of an entire?
Spot-on! Its just that I feel the journey as a requirement, as if being taught. Its not something I have in most parts brought about, its more a road I have been taken down. On the other hand I suppose simply asking deep questions could possibly be making things [CIN’s {see pagan thread]] happen like that. In which case it doesn’t require anything it is me who has asked of it not the other way around.
So yea I guess I agree.
The question, “What does it want?” is asking “what will it take to get it to be less aggressive and satisfied - perhaps to leave me alone?” It does not purport conscience intent, but rather having incentive or inspiring force within it; cause for its aggression and activity.
You asking that question is the you that already understands pressing to the foreground, but not yet having the means to cut through the veil that is called objectivity. Since you are a shaman I must assume that this knowing already forms a large part of your active being. As I understand the calling, the shaman is the one who, at least in his ‘trances’, embodies that path-making at the very core of being, the cause of the road your ‘exoteric’ (literally: ‘outside of the curtain’) self is walking as if it objectively exists.
Quetz, I’ve never really understood what you mean by matter having ‘information and communication.’ Since matter has no mind, are you saying that matter’s information and communication depends on an outside observer who (or that) can perceive and analyze the data within matter? Just asking, since I’m in my desire to understand mode.
Yes, You are the IT…You are the creator…the self writes the script…and the only way in which you will be able to get the answers to your questions, is by asking Yourself those questions. But take your time…it can be fun and it is the very stuff that the real essence of life is made of. Can’t recall who it was but some very wise man said that we must first live the questions and not worry about understanding them and at some point we will come to discover that we have grown into the answers. Might have been Rilke or Rumi - not sure. Both of them were deeply wise and knowing.
Indeed. Aren’t we taken along a path? [well some of us] One that seems to be making demands as if to take us ‘somewhere’ or make us wiser [which I think it does ~ but there needs a purpose to that too] when otherwise it would appear we are on the road to nowhere.
It* does yes. I have often wondered in a similar way to how I take what you mean, that ‘I am my own deity’ [without meaning to sound conceited]. Do you mean that the exoteric being is taking over too much of my life or trying to become the whole? So my more worldly self needs to take control once more?
You may be spot on again, as I have worked it out in my Pythagorean reasoning [like alchemy kinda]; my path began at age 20 [with a vision of the creator who showed me my future] I am a ‘9’ numerologically, 3 X 9 = 27 [yes that number when rock stars etc die] equates as I see it as my path. I am now 48 and 47 was the end of that initiatory esoteric path, and so I have felt that having made it through that tumultuous year, I now need to re-evaluate things in a more earthly fashion ~ as you say or infer, to take back that objective path and make use of my learning’s in a more worldly manner.
No I don’t think so, I think matter is not wholly descriptive of what’s going on, for me what composes and organises matter is information and its communications. The material is always a kind of shell wrapped around that ~ a hologram.
Thank you very much for those wise words! I do feel as if the answers are about to unfold within me.
Interesting! you are saying the opposite to the others, that it’s the path [or the maker of the path] that determines where I may tread, or at least end up. In which case I am left wondering; what does ‘it’ want.
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Its just that I feel the journey as a requirement, as if being taught. Its not something I have in most parts brought about, its more a road I have been taken down. On the other hand I suppose simply asking deep questions could possibly be making things [CIN’s {see pagan thread]] happen like that. In which case it doesn’t require anything it is me who has asked of it not the other way around.