what is needed now...

in my readings, I have come across notable “movements” that have
changed both intellectual history and political history…

for example the movement we call “the humanist movement” or Humanism…

we can see the change this movement made by what it was attacking…

Humanism was about making changes, religious, political and social changes…

Erasmus was the most well known humanist…a humanist engagement wasn’t with
the church or religious doctrine, but with what should human beings engage with…
the state and intellectual idea’s and making the comparison between the humanist
reading of choice, the Ancient Greeks and Romans and modern times…

Erasmus as born around 1466… and the world was still basically medieval…
and a large part of the battle of humanist was against the medieval world…
and one of the things that we might note that the new vision included was
an emphasis on the individual… this process began during the Renaissance…
for example, Artist during the middle ages didn’t sign their work… we don’t know
for example the names of those who worked on the great Cathedrals of the Middle
ages…they rarely ever identified themselves… where the Renaissance and thereafter
the artist was all about making sure everyone, everyone knew who they were…

we see a return to the idea of the individual during the Renaissance and thereafter…
and the humanist movement was part of this change…

and in the 17th and 18th century, we see the next movement which was the
Enlightenment… and that was different and yet, still attacked some of the same targets,
the church and the “backwards” beliefs that both movement felt where holding people back…

and we know that the most famous statement out of the Enlightenment was
“dare to know”… but the most ideal argument that came out of the humanist movement
was ( and I have made up this to prove a point) was “dare to read”

and so we can see historically, that we have had movements that have
have changed what it means to be human…

and that brings us to the next point, we need another movement…
like the humanists or the enlightenment members, to take us to
the next place where we need to be…and what will that movement
be about?

I point out the 4 idols of Francis Bacon… that distract us from self evaluation
and self actualization…the four idols are the tribe, the cave, the marketplace
and the theater…

the tribe is the group of humanity, many people will succumb to the peer
pressure of their fellow human beings or follow their basic instincts instead
of doing what a higher good…

the cave is the individual entity when someone follows what is in their own
self interest and they neglect the greater good…

the marketplace is pretty clear, it is consumable goods that create
quick satisfaction which prevents us from finding deeper meaning and

and last the theater… which is the media and entertainment which is
often described as a distraction while our humanity is drained away from us…
the media tends to alienate us from other humans and keeps them occupied
to the extend that they never reach anything outside of their day to day life…

and now we see this movement of the Renaissance and the humanist in different light…

there were attacking parts of the the four idols…

and the next movement which we so desperately need is to continue
the attack upon the four idols…

and part of these idols that need to be attacked is the state, the need for money,
the search for the baubles of existence that we do now, wealth, power, titles,
fame… these idols distract us from a true engagement with what really matters…

who I am and what does it mean to be human is far more important then
my wealth or my titles or what power I may hold… or how famous I am…

the beginning of wisdom comes from “seeing” that fame or wealth or titles
mean nothing, nothing at all…they are superficial outside crap that
adds nothing to our lives outside of our ego needs to be seen…

the truth is we modern people keep seeking inconsequential and
unnecessary crap that doesn’t move us along to what is really important…

the asking ourselves what does it mean to be human and how do we
make the transition from animal to animal/human to becoming fully human…
how are we to answer the questions of existence, “What am I/we to do?” “What should
I/we hope for?” “What values should I/ we believe in?”

for every question, every question has an individual aspect and a collective aspect…
what is it about for me and what is it about for the society, state, culture?

it is not enough to say “I” for we must also say “We”… and what values should “We”
hold collectively is an important part of the discussion being held today…

and so, I say unto you, we need a new movement, a new wave of understanding of
what it means to be human today…

we cannot just repeat the prior movements of the humanist or the prior movement
of the enlightenment, no, no we have to engage in our own new movement in
which we also begin to dare… not just “dare to read” or to “dare to know” but
a new beginning which is “dare to act”… become who you are and not who
the society or the media or the state tells you who you are…

reject the 4 idols and renew the battle to understand what it means to
be human…we are too soft and lazy to try to understand the new truths…

that is what Nietzsche meant when he said to “become hard”
not to be cruel, but to become hard to the necessary task of
truly seeing who I am and who we are…for it takes a great deal of
strength and courage and hardness to truly make the effort to see,
to understand who we really are and what does that mean for our journey
to become human…

we lack the courage and strength to begin an engagement with who we are…
because we might not like who we are right now… I am not pleased at who I am
and I am not pleased at who we are as a society right now… so the question becomes,
what is next? what am I going to do about it?

to escape the cowards way out which is seeking the idols of wealth, of power, of
fame and of titles… the cowards way out because it doesn’t challenge
anything, it doesn’t require any great courage to seek out what society already
wants you do to…it take courage to build… the is why the failures on ILP
such as Gloom and Zero have nothing… because they wallow in the 4 year old
mindset that only accepts nihilism and the destruction of things…

to build something, that takes time and dedication and effort… something most
everyone here avoids like a plague… people around here take the easy way out…
why rock the boat and take the hard road when there is a much easier path into
the future…seeking wealth and fame and power and titles…and around here,
just scoring points instead of actual understanding…

why take the hard road of actually seeing who you are and working toward
an understanding of what you are overcoming to become human…

a new movement is needed… are you in?
do you have the courage to try a new road?


we, each of us, has been indoctrinated into the values and beliefs
of the society, state, church and culture we live in… the trick is to
overcome those indoctrinations…

for example, the idol a whole lot of people hold is, the belief in god…

now is this belief really your belief, or do you hold it because it was
indoctrinated into you?

have you done a reevaluation of values in an attempt to find out if your beliefs
are actually your beliefs or simple the beliefs of your family, your state,
your society or your church?

I would suggest that the idols held by most people here are values that
have been indoctrinated into them by the state, family, church, society…

what have you done to overcome those indoctrinations that now clutter
your mind?

One might say, I believe in god, but why? why that belief instead of other beliefs?
why do you hold to that one possibility in the midst of millions of other possibilities?

I say, how would you know? Your beliefs have been handed to you and you have never
made the effort to sort out what it is you actually hold to be true, and not what
you have been indoctrinated with…

why would someone hold the childish belief that somehow destruction of the
society/state could actually build into something better?

and what would that something better look like?

the Russian revolution was a massive failure and why?

because it didn’t see what the point of the values that were replaced
by the Russian revolution…in other words, society was remade, sure, but
what values were put into play by the Russian revolution that were better then
the values overthrown by the revolution?

they had not sense of what was to come next, instead they focused on the overthrow
but the overthrow has to, has to have some values already attached to them…

in other words, I want to overthrow the government, which is great but then
you have to replace those values with something of equal or greater value
and the Russian revolution didn’t replace the overthrown values with something
equal or greater… it was simply the drive for power that replaced the old guard
and the drive for power is merely a bauble… what about replacing the old guard with
some value that reflects what it means to be human, instead of the old values of
power, money, fame, titles… which is all the new revolution brought in, not new
values but simply the old values hidden within the framework of the revolution…

the Russian revolution offered us nothing new, no new values, no new
principles, no new understanding of what it means to be human…

and so to replace the old values, we have to offer up new values and
a new understanding of what it means to be human and what does it
take to get from animal, to animal/human to finally becoming fully human?

so, we have the old idols of the tribe, the marketplace, the cave and the
theater… what do we replace them with?

if I do away with the idol of the tribe, then what do I replace it with?

if I do away with the idol of the marketplace, what do I replace it with?

that is the question? what is next?

Zero and gloom, observ and Ur… has nothing to replace the old values with,
outside of stale and useless values that give us nothing…we cannot replace
the old values with more old values… we have to begin the search for values in
which can replace the old values of the 20th and 19th century with new values,
values of the century we are in, the 21st century…

and what are the 21st century values?

ah, that is the question isn’t it?


You’re up Biggus.

Explain to him what the Marxists wanted as a replacement of the old imperial system.

All I can offer anyone here is my own subjective understanding of Marxism. Given the gap between what I think I know about it “here and now” and all that can be known about it. The same as Peter. The same as you.

My problem however is explaining that to the objectivists among us.

It’s not a question of subjective/objective understanding of Marxism. It’s a question of what Lenin, and others , expected to achieve. Or at least what they said that they wanted to achieve.

To say that “the Russian revolution offered us nothing new, no new values, no new
principles, no new understanding of what it means to be human…” is utter bullshit.

Ah, but then there is the gap between what any of us expect to achieve given what we believe about Marxism/Communism or Objectivism/Capitalism and what we are able to demonstrate that all rational men and women are obligated to believe as well.

Marx was a materialist, Rand was an idealist. Two very different approaches to political economy.

As for what Lenin or Mao expected, they expected it in a largely pre-industrial agrarian economy that was far removed from the historical predictions of Marx and Engels. Just as what Marx and Engels predicted was far removed from the actual historical evolution of the capitalist political economy. For example, the rise of the unions, the middle class, the welfare state, crony capitalism.

The gap between an objectivist manifesto and the sheer complexity of the real world. And that’s before you and your ilk get to my arguments.


I’m inclined to agree. But there is still the gaping gap between what any new ideological assessment assures us is the case and how the real world has, historically, upended them all.

You know, so far.