Lately, I have strarted to doubt or question what i think of as real. I no longer look at a table and think that that is real. Looking at a table I no longer trust me senses and can only make it exist with reason. I see the table but my mind tells me that it doesn’t really exist, that it’s just a piece of energy…but then what really exists? Sometimes I find myself viewing life as a dream that i can’t get out of. Has anyone else felt this way?
-Deltron 2005
Deltron,
welcome to our message board. I know how you feel, as well as, what you mean. You may be empathetic with movies like Matrix and philosophers such as Berkeley or Liebniz. In fact, I believe your perspective to be closer to reality than Berkeley’s or Liebniz’ in that you said that you think of things as energy, with which even Einstein would likely agree with you. Paradoxically, you say that you think things don’t truly exist and that you use reason to make the things make sense to you as energy. Just to clarify, are you saying that energy, to you, isn’t real?
Deltron stated:
All the time.
I look forward to reading more of your posts.
Respectfully,
~Magius
"Just to clarify, are you saying that energy, to you, isn’t real? "
You’re correct, sometimes i dismiss my other thinking (i.e. a table isn’t a table but is just a piece of matter or energy) and challenge the idea that energy doesn’t exist. Anything that i percieve with my senses doesn’t exist…leaving me only with my thoughts and mind…it’s cool but scary at the same time…
-Deltron 2005
Deltron stated:
Seems as though you are already convinced 
I’m curious, are you empathetic with Descartes thoughts?
It would be cool if Descartes was right about being able to come to all knowledge with the simple tool of introspection, even prior to that it would be cool to know that we CAN actually learn everything about…everything. Since, Descartes believed science to be finishable (if I may use such a word). One may although, ask themselves “What is the point, purpose, or practical usage of such thoughts?” To which I would answer, very little for the following reasons and maybe the following questions can bring you to understand your ideas better: 1) If all that exists is my thoughts and my mind, how will I live my life differently? What knowledge have I really attained? How do I know that the thoughts which I am having are mine? 2) What are the psychological effects of this thought of only my existing? Will I get depressed from loneliness? Will I begin to treat people merely as things and not as entities in themselves, since they are only figments of my imagination? 3) When I say “Nothing I sense is real” do I really understand what I am saying? What is it that I am sensing then, and why am I sensing it? Moreover, what do I(you) define as real? Could there be degrees of real, so that the physical universe gets one degree of real while our thoughts get another? If thoughts are real and not material things, then why can’t I think a thought without reference to a perceptual experience?
After answering these questions, I suspect you will have a better understanding of your position on the matter and will likely move to do one of two things, 1) See where you went wrong and alter your position, where I would ask you to post your new thoughts - or - 2) See where you went right and where I went wrong, where I would ask you to post your reasons and insights into my errors so that you can bring me to understand the truth → For it is truth I am always seeking and the only thing I expect from anyone on this message board.
What’s your take?
I’m not well read on my philosophy but i’m slowly getting there. Of course i’m not totaly convinced that i really believe that “sensible objects” (as Berkeley would say) aren’t real…i actually don’t like thinking that objects don’t really exist. Sometimes i alter my mind o thinking these abstract thoughts and I get depressed butbecause i start to challenege everything i’ve once known. …\ I’ve already started to think upont the idea that maybe my thoughts and feelings aren’t real which I think will bring me to thoughts that i wll be a tough and painful for me… But i constantly use hegel’s dialectic theory if you will…i’m constantly thinking and arguing with myself…and my mind is constantly changing…once i think I found an answer i can always search deeper, although not right away.
I am of the thought that getting to the point of challenging everything you know is part of the move from childhood to adulthood.
Since the day you were born your brain builds a world from experiences, and every time it has a similar experience it just enhances and fortifies the brains image of the world.
At a certain points in your life you start using different parts of your brain, that is the move from childhood to teenage to adulthood.
Entering adulthood you now begin to see the world in a different way, fresh and unique. Most of this just reaffirms what you already know about the world.
Some parts don’t seem to fit in and the brain has to solve this by ignoring it or reassessing what it thought to be true.
Some people live their lives like sheep or ostriches with their head in the sand, just becuase they can not handle it.
Others explore this new avenue of conciousness and spend the rest of their lives questioning thier experiences.
I think it could be down to dawning conciousness. I feel that as I have grown older I have grown more concious of the world around me, how it works etc and my awareness of things has expanded.
When I was young I thought I knew it all, I couldn’t get my head round the phrase ‘if only I knew then what I know now’ that alot of older people used to say. I had no comprehension or experience to reflect on what that phrase really meant.
To my mind, the only reality we can be aware of is our own, and that we can not be sure that anyone elses reality is the same as ours or even that any two realities are the same. We just can not say that as each of us only have one take on life.
To tell you the truth most of the time I really don’t understand most of the stuff discussed in these forums, or even what relavence each idea has.
I can’t quote great philosophers, damn I can’t even name them. All I know is that this is a place where I can read ideas that make me think about my own life.
If I try to see the relevance of myself in the big scheme of things I get abit out of balance and have to re centre myself.
So I spend my time as a tourist, travelling through life. As if I am just visiting, collecting images and knowledge to have as bigger experience as I can.
The trick is to try and not to let yourself get depressed.
Like all vacations you need to take time ouut in the local bar at night, chill out, forget what you’ve experienced so far for now. You’ll still have that to reflect on in the morning when you wake up with a hangover!
Basically what I’m saying is don’t dwell on anything, if it’s important it will fit together like a jigsaw puzzle in a few months/years time when you least expect it. I mean you can’t expect to finish the puzzle when you only have one or two pieces now can you? And why break your head trying to work out what’s missing, when waiting a while, doing something thing else until you find another piece to put with the others.
Depression is bad, patience is good, you just have to learn it.
Now where did I put my wibbling stick???
MentulZen.
i think at the end of the day, the point is do you really care? i spent many a philosophy lecture in my first year worrying about whether we really exist and if descartes really was able to prove that i wasn’t really dreaming, but then i got home and went to the pub or watched neighbours and forgot about it until the next week. even if the world is really a figment of my imagination, i figure i may as well still try to enjoy it…