What is the consequence of Suicide

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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What is the consequence of Suicide


Shri Ramanath asked about the consequences of the suicide.

Swami replied “As I told you, the human life is almost impossible. The Christianity and Islam do not agree re-human birth. In Hinduism the re-human birth is admitted but it is said to be very rare. When the same God is the speaker of all the religions, there cannot be contradiction. Therefore, this means the re-human birth is generally impossible. But the omnipotent God can sanction the re-human birth to a soul if there is a hope of its upliftment. The human birth is meant for the human being having interest in spiritual knowledge. It does not mean mere human form.

Eating, sleep, emotions related to the environment and sex to produce children are common to both human beings and animals (Ahara Nidra Bhaya Mithunani…). The human birth with spiritual knowledge and coming in contact with the human incarnation happens only once. Such a human birth is called as Brahmana. Here this word is not at all related to the present caste system. The Brahmana means the human being belonging to any caste having full interest in the spiritual field and comes in contact with the human form of the Lord with faith so that he attains the perfect spiritual knowledge (Brahma Jnanam). If such chance is missed, he will be born as Kshatriya who believes only in his effort and efficiency with full egoism.

The next birth is Vysya having over attachment to wealth. The next birth is Sudra who is always selfish. The next birth is fisherman (Ganga putra) in which he kills the fish in the water. The next birth is hunter (vyadha) who kills the animals in the forest. The last birth of human form is Chandala who kills even the animals that served him. Thus, the soul descends by seven births and finally enters the cycle of animals, birds , worms etc.

The soul existing as Brahmana will never commit suicide. The souls of other levels only commit suicides due to problems in the world. The Brahmana will never commit suicide because he is well aware of the main divine aim of the human life. Even if the soul of other types is alive there is very little chance of its upliftment. Veda says that by committing suicide the soul enters the world of permanent darkness which means ignorance (asuryanaamate…). This means that the soul directly enters the cycle of animals etc., on committing suicide. Thus there is only one chance of the birth of Brahmana for a soul, which means that there is only one chance for any soul to have the real fruitful human birth in which it can meet the human incarnation.

In the other births the soul has only a very tiny trace of chance to meet and recognize the human form of the Lord in true spirit. All ready when the possibility of the upliftment of self is a trace only, if suicide is committed, it looses that trace of chance also. Thus, one in seven persons can only recognize the human form of the God in the right spirit of the upliftment of the self. The other human beings do not recognize at all and even if they recognize, they try to use the Lord for the worldly matters only.

The real suicide is that when the soul is not trying for its spiritual upliftment and always is dragged by the worldly affairs only. Such a soul will become a lizard which is always watching for an insect to eat. All its concentration is on the insect only. Gopikas jumped into fire after hearing the death of Krishna. But it is not suicide, because they have realized the main aim of the human life, which is the Lord only. What is the use of a soul always immersed in worldly affairs and worldly bonds only? Such a soul has really committed suicide already because the soul killed itself (Naatmaana mavasadayet-Gita).

When the sage Sanatsujata came to Dhrutarashtra, Dhrutarashtra asked him about the death. Then the sage told that the real death is that by which the soul forgets God and is completely immersed in the world (Pramadakhyo Mrurtyuh). Thus, the soul which leaves without any contact with God is already a dead soul, which committed suicide. Gopikas are immortal even though they have committed suicide since they sacrificed their lives for the love of God. This gross body is just like a shirt according to Gita (Vasamsi Jirnani…). Therefore, committing suicide is not a big thing for a realized soul. It is just like changing the cloth. But the purpose for which the suicide is committed is very very important. If the purpose is due to any worldly matter, the soul is thrown in to the permanent hell. The reason for this is that the soul has to detach from the world and attach itself to God.

Instead of doing this, the soul is disturbed due to over attachment to the world and is committing suicide. In the memory of Krishna, Radha became mad and wandered in the Brindavanam without food and water. She finally died in the madness of Krishna. That is suicide due to over attachment to God, but the consequence of such sacrifice of life is divine and has immortal fruit.

Jesus also sacrificed His life for the sake of God. He said that if one does not carry on his own cross for the sake of God, he cannot be the dearest devotee of God. Gita says that a real devotee will even give up the life for the sake of God (Matgata Pranah….). Therefore, the consequence of suicide for any worldly matter is only the permanent hell. When Meera was given poison, she swallowed it and was saved by the Lord. Hanuman tore His heart with His own nails to show Lord in His heart. All these cases of attempt of suicide but have immense spiritual value. Dhrutarashtra lived hundred and twenty years but he has already committed suicide, even though he was alive, because he did not listen to the advice of Lord Krishna even in the worldly matter.

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

universal-spirituality.org
Universal Spirituality for World Peace
antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

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The consequence of suicide is premature death.

Because the compulsion to commit suicide is, in most cases, transient and could certainly be remedied, suicide is the tragic and permanent end of a person’s life.

There is no afterlife – that is simply a myth that some people with exacerbated anxiety about the reality of their mortality use as a coping anti-anxiety drug.

So suicide is a tragic final end to one’s only life that, in most cases, could have been avoided.

Because there is no afterlife, there is no “going to Hell” for committing suicide.

But living a good full life is still preferable to premature nothingness, and the truth of that is taught to everyone who has grieved the premature loss of anything, a loved-one, a relationship, a job, etc. – premature demise is not a good thing, and premature demise that could have been avoided, especially when it is the very life of someone, is really bad.

And then there is the consequence of grief and legacy suffered by the suicider’s loved-ones. In some cases, the suicide of a parent is sufficient impetus to cause suicide of the child, multiplying the tragedy.

Most suicides can and should be avoided, from the perspective of the potential suicide victim.

The consequences of avoidable suicide are always horrific.

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You can end your life here, but it doesnot means that everything is over. The fruits of action done upon the earth one has to receive either here or in the upper worlds. One cannot escape the divine administration of Lord. One may escape the judiciary in this world, but one cannot escape from Lords divine administration. Each and every act is recorded and the fruits are given according to the merit. Thus withdrawing the life from this earth, need not mean that the end of the story.

The emphasis on this topic is that, this human life is very very precious, it should not be wasted unnecessiarily. Why cannt one attempt in this life itself to turn his activities slowly towards Lord? All these suicide and negative thought all arise from attachment to the worldly bonds, the main reason behind it is the selfish motive in maintaining our relations.

God hate selfishness, He likes unselfish service. If you see and anlyse the worldly activities you can find the risk involved in the material activities. One has to labour like anything to maintains these worldly relations, as one more and more attached to the family he will put more and more effort to store money and hence he has to work more and more, with selfishness.

But if you see the Lords work, which is the propagation of divine knowledge is devoid of any selfishness. One is involved in His service becasue of unconditional love. Unconditional love means without any expectation. Such work carries no burden, and it is light to carry. Lords work is very light unlike the worldly work.

Lord comes in every human generation in human form to be able for us to serve Him. By this we get the opportunity to touch, see, talk to Him and co-live with Him. We can clear all our doubts. He gives the divine knoweldge which removes all our doubts.

Then, is it justifiable to loose this precious life? Remember that only upon this earth, can we do actions. In the upperworlds there is only enjoyment of our deed only, which is happiness or misery according to our deeds, once these enjoyment is finished one has to return to this temporary earth again. If we are lucky to get human birth, which is very very rare, it should properly utilised to please the Lord, rather than wasting in indulging too much in the worldly bonds and atlast loosing everything.

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Only one Lord created this entire universe. He should have told the same knowledge everywhere in the world. The contradiction is only due to misunderstanding. In Hinduism also Sankara says that again human birth is almost impossible (Jantunaam Nara Janma Durlabhamidam). Sankara was the incarnation of Siva and so what He told is also authoritative. Even Gita says that the soul comes back to this world but does not say that the soul gets again the human birth (Ksheene Punye Martyalokam Visanti). In the second chapter, Gita speaks about rebirth but not about the human rebirth. Islam and Christianity say that the human birth is given only as a single chance. After this the final judgement is given. The soul either goes to the Lord or goes to the hell permanently. In Gita also there are two ways for the soul. Either the soul goes to the Lord and does not return back or the soul returns back to the world (Abrahma Bhuvanath, Yat Gatva). According to Gita, if the soul does not go to the Lord (Brahmaloka), it returns back after enjoying the fruits of incomplete spiritual effort. Therefore in this human birth, if the spiritual effort is completed, the soul goes to the Brahmaloka permanently.

If the spiritual effort is incomplete the soul may go up to any world below Brahmaloka, it will return back to this earth after enjoying the fruits of its incomplete spiritual effort. The soul may go up to the sixth world, it cannot go to the Brahmaloka, which is the seventh world by doing the remaining spiritual effort in the sixth world. The reason is once the soul leaves this earth all the upper worlds are only Bhogalokas i.e., the worlds in which the soul can enjoy the fruits, but cannot do any work (Karma). Therefore the soul has to return back to the earth. The soul will not get again another chance of human birth because once it is failed it can never succeed. Therefore the soul comes to the earth and falls into the cycle of animals and birds only. When the soul is trapped in this cycle of animal births, it is treated as a permanent hell.

If the soul goes to Brahmaloka it always accompanies the Lord either in Brahmaloka or may come back to the earth along with the Lord who takes the human incarnation. In such case the soul is born as a divine servant of the Lord. Such soul will not take rebirth in the cycle of animals. Thus for the divine soul also there is no such rebirth. In this way Hinduism, Islam and Christianity are correlated as one concept preached by the one Lord. Christians and Muslims are putting up sincere spiritual effort because there is a threat that this human life is the only chance. There is no reexamination according to these religions. This human birth is the only one examination and the soul either passes or fails and will not be allowed for any reexamination. But in Hinduism such threat is not there.

People have taken a lenient view on the spiritual life because they think that the human rebirths are possible and so they can put up the spiritual effort slowly in the future human births. The Lord cannot say different theories to different people. The rule must be same for all the human beings of the world. Therefore whatever the Lord told in Christianity and Islam also told the same in Hinduism. Hindus misunderstood the concept. Therefore what ever may be the religion, every human being should think “Now or Never”.

The human rebirth is only for Yoga Bhrashta i.e., the soul, which has reached Brahmaloka and fell due to some slip. Such a soul is suspended from Brahmaloka and comes down to the earth and takes rebirth as a human being only. You have passed the P.G. Degree and obtained the post of the lecturer. But you were suspended for a month due to some mistake. You will be re-appointed.

Similarly the Yoga Bhrashta will be born as a human being for some time and will come back to Brahmaloka. The case of incomplete spiritual effort is different from Yoga Bhrashta. The incomplete spiritual person is like a B.A. Degree holder who never achieved the lecturer post. You cannot argue that you can be appointed as a seventy five percent lecturer since you reached seventy five percent of the total educational period (from school to P.G.Degree is hundred percent) by getting a B.A. Degree.

Thus there is no partial achievement by partial spiritual effort. The grace of the Lord is either hundred percent or zero. If it is hundred percent you are reaching Brahmaloka. If it is Zero percent you are falling back to the earth in the cycle of animals and birds. There is no third way in between these two. When this truth is revealed, only one in thousands will try to put the real spiritual effort as said in Gita (Manushyaanaam Sahasreshu). By this Hindus will become alert in spiritual effort like Christians and Muslims.

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An addict by any other name would smell as drugged. :unamused:

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there is no such thing as premature death

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Again i stress that this life is very very precious. One should not waste it.

Now people may argue that there is no hell or heaven after this life. All the beilief are not true. The truth is that divine administration continues even after this earthly life. We are seeing endless suffering upon this earth, it is a replica of the hell itself. Poeple think that by doing sucide one can escape the karma chakra, which is the wheel of activities and its feed back created by that particular soul because of his actions.

In all these context, the main aim of life should not be forgotten. Lord is available to you for your service.

But some poeple may be bedridden and suffereing to such an extend that they are unable to any service to God. For such people, atlease they can listen or read the divine knowledge given by the Lord in human form in the present generation. Slowly over a period of time he can get mental peace, then atleast he can start some mental prayers to God, for developing faith in God.

I can tell you my own experience. I had passed through a great spell of depression and axiety, physical health problems etc. All through this time i did not loose my faith in Lord, i keep on praying, keep on reading the divine knolwedge and what ever possible way i could serve the Lord by participating in His mission, i did it. Over a period of time i experienced a great change in me, acheived through the relaisation of the divine knowlege and practicing it.

My dear friend one may be heavliy burdened by diseases etc, but to whatever capacity he can render service to Lord, one can do it.

If he is finacially sound he can particiapte in the mission of divine knowledge propagation by spending some money. If he is even incapable of it he can hear or read the divine knowlege and try to develop love on Lord. Slowly and definietly Lord will do His level best suiting the condition of that soul.

Whatever sufference undergoing by a person is just because of his own action only. God is not responsible for that. In fact God has done His level best so far to change that soul, only as an ultimate resort He permit the punishment. Punishment is only for introspection and change in the life style of soul to realise that this life is very precious and one should divert his or her attention to Lord with immediate effect, and give only least importance to all other activities in this world.

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Arguments based on the fantasy of predetermination, arguments that ignore the reality of free will, are easily dashed upon appeal to actual behavior.

The next time you get really sick, don’t do anything about it – if you die from it, then you were meant to die, if not, then you weren’t. Whatever you do, just let things happen – take no alternate action yourself, as the presence of that virus killing you is as it should be, and if it kills you it was not prematurely. :unamused:

Those who utilized their more recently developed part of the human brain know what the reality of premature death is, they sanely seek to avoid it, and they cry tears laced with anger that undeniably reveals the truth of it when someone they love is cut down prematurely by a thieving murderer or a drug overdose.

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Free Will or Will of God

The Lord is controlling all the souls as per Veda “Aatmeshwaram”, which means that all the souls are ruled by the Lord. Gita also says the same “Bhuthanaam Eeswarah”. But this does not mean that there is no independence for the soul. When the king rules the kingdom, all the people in that kingdom are independent in their activities, but they are within the rules of the king. Thus a short span of independence in the human life exists under the control and supervision of the Lord. A cat caught a rat by its jaws. It leaves the rat after a bite for a short span of time. In that span the rat gets independence and runs in any side as it likes. But the cat is watching the rat and catches it again whenever the rat is out of the limits of the supervision. Similarly the Lord called “Kaala” (death) catches a human being and bites.

The bite is the illness of the human being. The repeated diseases are the repeated bites of the ‘Kaala” or the Lord. During the bite the rat looses completely its independence. Similarly any human being, which is attacked by the disease becomes a patient and looses its independence completely. The cat plays with the rat for sometime like this and finally swallowes the rat. Similarly, the human being is swallowed by the Lord at the end. The whole creation itself is like a rat for the cat like Lord, which is told in Brahmasutra “Atta Charaachara Grahanaat”. Thus the short span of independence of human beings under the supervision of the overall controlling Lord, creates the full game and entertainment for the Lord. The entertainment is the basic reason of the creation by the Lord as said in Veda (Ekaaki Na Ramate) and as said in Brahmasutra (Lokavattu). Within the limits of the supervision of the cat, the rat will receive the result of the direction in which it runs.

In one direction there may be fire and the rat may receive the heat. In another direction there may be cold water and the rat will receive the coolness in that direction. The rat is independent to receive the result of the direction and has full independence to go in any direction. The final death of the rat shows that the rat is under the control of the cat during its choice of direction also, which is not interfered by the cat. Similarly the human life is with full of independence but the final end proves that the independence is under the control of the Lord. Yet, since there was no interference of the Lord during the human life, the human being receives the results according to its actions. Thus the “whole game is perfectly justified in any angle”.

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Dattaswami, you remind me that there are times when I do wish that religion was as illegal as LSD and pot, for all the similar spaced-out druggied symptoms it causes.

And, like most chemical drug addicts, religion drug addicts are equally as clueless about their addiction and its mind-damaging effects.

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nothing you have said supports the concept of premature death. death simply occurs, it occurs neither prematurely or belatedly regardless of the actions one take to avoid it or assist it. free will cannot keep one from dying, free will choices may assist you in keeping death at bay (or not) but death can only occur in the moment it happens. those that are left after another dies may believe that the other’s life was ended prematurely, however, it ended at the only moment it possibly could have. that moment is the moment of death.

based on your reasoning, could you give me an example of a death that was not premature?

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If you die before your country’s average lifespan, I believe that’s premature.

This is all you got; seventy five years if that’s the going average, still. You shouldn’t be here to begin with; Las Vegas bookies would have been betting against you. But you’re here. No Heaven, no Hell, no second chance after this. You’ll revert back to the nothingness that you were before you were born.

You off yourself, and you’re giving up the one thing that really matters most. You can’t possibly be that selfish or so assured that some invisible sky king is going to have your back when the stakes are that high.

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02.21.07.1945

This looks like the first logical thing you’ve ever said. I’d like to make a suggestion though… if you want to persuade people to believe what you believe, it would be wise to work on your composition. Good writing can be detected when the writer gets their point across with the minimum number of words.

So, I agree that one should not waste this life, because it’s the only life one has the opportunity to live. Of course, a prime example of wasting a life is spending it on the triviality of religious belief. There’s a real world out there that shows us why we don’t need silly fantasies.

In any case, can you prove anything about your beliefs? After all, if it is your god’s will that your arguments should never convince anyone on this site, what kind of plan is that for you to waste your time?

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The consequence of suicide is death. Which is coming anyway. So death cannot be thought of as a consequence of suicide.

So the consequence of suicide is premature death. But when is premature and when isn’t? I would say that premature death is a death that happens before and thus prevents you from creating and then molding in your own image children. Suicide, then, is complete death. It’s the voluntary obliteration of your pattern, forever.

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Sabrina;

Religion Vs Spirituality

Every Religion in this world wants you to get rid of bad qualities at least from today for the admission into that religion which is practically impossible. The reason is that these bad qualities were grown like hills for the past millions of births. This small human life is insufficient even to move them, not to speak of removing them. People can control the bad qualities to some extent by their efforts. These bad qualities are frequently sparking in the minds of even the most pious sages. If one says that he is good and he is devoid of all the bad qualities, it only cheating others, which in turn is cheating oneself. Due to this practically impossible condition, for the religious admission, people have developed allergy towards any religion because the eligibility for admission is impractical.

The religious preachers have confused the whole situation by fusing religion and spiritualism. Religion is the context of GOD to establish peace and justice in this world. In this context, you must control your bad qualities so that you will not disturb the peace and justice and will not harm any good person in this world. If you disturb the world by your bad qualities, God will punish you. But, in this context, it is sufficient if you control the bad qualities since you cannot remove them. The Religion ends here. Some religions strictly end here without any spiritualism.

The spiritualism is the context in which you have to make efforts to reach God. In this context, you need not even control your bad qualities because, God has no personal objection towards your bad qualities. These bad qualities cannot be obstacles in any manner in this context. Moreover, when you turn these bad qualities towards the God, they become your helpers. Any quality whether good or bad, is created by God only to help you in reaching Him. If you realize the original aim of all these qualities, good or bad, why should you control these qualities, which are with you as a helper? No fool controls his helpers. So, any quality when involved in spiritualism is used for its original aim, it becomes a good quality. So all your qualities become good in spiritualism and you need not put any effort to remove or even control them. When the qualities are not used for their original purpose, they become bad qualities. Therefore, whatever qualities turned towards the world, are bad qualities. In this spiritualism, there is no need of any effort even to control these bad qualities.

Then, for what, our effort should be made? Our effort should be concentrated to achieve “Bhakthi” which is the love on God. “Bhakthi” is achieved and is grown by the knowledge of God. For example, you came to know that Bombay City exists. This is the knowledge of existence of Bombay. By this you want to see Bombay. As you know the details of Bombay more and more, your desire to see the city becomes more and more. Knowing details about the Bombay City is again the further knowledge. So, knowledge is directly proportional to desire. First Rukmini heard that there is Lord Krishna on this earth. As she heard more and more about Lord Krishna from Sage Narada, her love on Krishna increased enormously. Narada means he who gives knowledge. Therefore, ‘Jnana”(knowledge) generates and develops “Bhakthi (devotion)”. Due to Bhakthi, the Lord is attained. Gita says the same ‘ONLY BY BHAKTHI I AM ATTAINED’ (‘Bhaktya………’).

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Psychology can be just as addictive as religion and can also create “spaced-out druggied” symptoms.

The addiction-model itself can become an addiction, as anybody who’s been to an AA meeting can attest to. And those “addicted” to modern psychology or the addiction-model are equally as clueless about their addiction and it’s mind-damaging effects as the religious addicts.

Bottom line is, any preconceived thought system which we use to cope with or explain reality has the potential for addiction. The clarity or precision of that thought system is irrelevant to it’s addictive potential.

i[/i] To show distaste or disdain for a thought system that is being employed by another mind is evidence of that addiction. That disdain is based on fear and insecurity, just like chemical addictions.

Aristotle said, “It is best employ a philosophy which cannot be easily challenged.”

He makes a good practical point. We are all addicted to our ideas. If our idealogy is shattered, we face all the pains similar to chemical withdrawal. Even the person who notes this addiction to idealogy is merely indulging in their own addiction.

The idea of making religion illegal because of it’s addictive effects is downright laughable. A religion is nothing but a culturaly standard nomenclature that one uses to describe one’s worldview. Every religious person uses that nomenclature to create a thought system that is totally different and unique from the believer standing next to them, who happens to employ the same (or similar) system.

To outlaw religion because its addictive logically leads to outlawing ideas themselves (including scientific or psychological ideas), which are the true addictive substances.

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The more recently developed part of the human brain does nothing but enhance our ability predict the outcome of events, or draw logical connections between those events. Those enhanced predictive powers merely create more complex habitual behaviors (addictions) than our furry friends in the animal kingdom can achieve.

Appeals to common sense arguments do no good whatsoever. Common sense can also be “addictive” or “insane”, to use your words. It is trading the bottle for the pipe.

Again, to refute another’s argument, rather than seek a common language from which to build dialog, is only evidence of addiction to one’s own perception.

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You make a good point, despite the condescending responses.

The pain one feels at the death of a loved one is, for the most part, a possessive loss. It is lost expectations. Part of the grieving process is realizing (a) life is NOT guaranteed and (b) the person you lost never really belonged to you in the first place.

Understanding that there is no such thing as a premature death could go a long way in relieving or preventing the suffering created by part A.

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Painful regret and agony of a tortured soul would be the only consequences.

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agreed. In my responses I was not taking into account the feelings of loss by loved ones and this may be why you feel them to be condescending. I should be more careful. I was merely pointing out that the idea that death, in and of itself, could in some way be premature is illogical. Obviously the words ‘premature’ and ‘belated’ carry conotations that extend further than delineations of time; they are also evaluative and beg the question of ‘premature relative to what?’ A couple of others have stated what they believe to be the point of comparison ( average lifespan in a given country, the production of children, thus the continuation of individual) which only support my idea. Not only that they are problematic as points of comparison, they also show that there can exist multitudes of relative points of evaluation.

Certainly life is not guarenteed, this attribute can only be claimed by death. And you are right, accepting (a) and (b) can benefit one who is dealing with the death of a loved one, though is not an immediate cure-all. Someone very close to me is at this very stage and to try to approach the situation as I have in my posts would be more problematic than helpful. Yet, if one is to ever come to a sort of peace with that death one must eventually end up at your (a) and (b), the when and how are unimportant.
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