What is the human endgame?

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

In every single sport, there is some sort of endgame,
to score more goals, run faster than the other guy, to
climb higher, to outthink the other guy as in chess,
In every single activity we do, there is some sort of
endgame… even if we are relaxing at the beach, the
endgame is just that, relaxing…

So, what is the endgame of human beings?
In religions, it is to reach or achieve the goal established
by god/or gods… to get to heaven for example, or to
be ‘‘saved’’ whatever the hell that means… but in every
activity, there is some sort of goal or endgame to be reached…
So, what is the endgame of human beings?

to one point, the endgame is to get to heaven, but that itself
sounds like a nightmare to me… to spend eternity worshiping
god? Personally, I can’t think of a greater nightmare than that…
but it also runs into the problem that that particular goal is
an individual goal, not a collective goal…

As Nietzsche pointed out, we human are on a path,
a bridge as it were… and the path leads us from
being animal, to becoming human, fully human…
One particular path is via religion… but that is a false path
because it assumes that there is a god, that there is a heaven,
and there are all the trappings involved in religion, angels,
demons, Satan, sin, righteousness, good and evil…
but the fact is that to eliminate, remove these unprovable
things, is but one step towards becoming human…
and certainly not the main or primary one…
so, what is it we are supposed to aim for, to become
more human? What is the goal of human existence?

We see the beginnings of this knowledge in the period
of time called the ‘‘Enlightenment’’… a major if not the
entire point of the Enlightenment, is to remove, eleminate
our own superstitions, bigotries, prejudices… to see the world
as is, not as our prejudices have us believe the world is…

At the end of the day, the goal of human existence is to finally
remove all the many superstitions, bigotries and prejudices that
we as human beings have… and to stand and see the world as it
is, not as we will it to be in terms of our prejudices and superstitions,
to see the world without the rose color glasses that exists within
the isms, ideologies, prejudices, superstitions and indoctrinations
that we accumulate throughout our lives…

To stand, naked as it were, without the clothing of prejudices
and bigotries that completely dominate our lives today…
and that act, is perhaps the most courageous act we may ever
engage with… Here I stand, I cannot do anything else…
naked without the benefit of the prejudices and superstitions
that human existence has gone with, up to today…

the final goal is to remove the bigotries and prejudices that
infect our minds to day… including conservativism, nationalism,
white makes right, and also liberalism and even ‘‘WOKE’’…
the goal is to stand before all and say, I am free of the
isms and ideologies that have, until today, blinded me…

But Kropotkin, that is not possible… how would we know unless
we actually try? but Kropotkin, why this goal and not another?
In holding to isms and ideologies, we are not engaged in our own
needs and beliefs… as Nietzsche himself said:

"It is not enough to have the courage of one’s beliefs,
one must have courage enough for an attack upon one’s beliefs’’

In holding onto values/beliefs that are the state’s/society
values, is not holding onto your own beliefs and values…
We are awfully engaged in beliefs that were indoctrinated
into us…in holding to religious beliefs of god, sin, good and evil,
and heaven/hell/and angels, we are not holding onto our own values,
we are holding onto values that were indoctrinated into us…
they are the states and the societies values and beliefs…
at the end of the day, it is not enough for us to hold
and practice these foreign, to us, values, the strength
of a human being is the ability to stand before all and say,
I can only hold to what I see, nothing more… and to see clearly,
without isms and ideologies, the universe around us…

The various isms and ideologies we hold, which includes the
religions, political beliefs, prevent us from seeing reality as it
is, with these ism’s and ideologies, we see the world through those
prisms, those colored glasses… and not as the universe/world really
is… and it is a sign of courage and bravery to even attempt to
see the world as is, not with the isms and ideologies that blind
us to reality, as is…

the path to becoming human is a path of losing, removing,
eliminate, those values that were indoctrinated into us…
to be brave enough to stand before all and hold that the only
reality worth holding onto is the reality that stands before me
and is not colored by bigotries and prejudices…

the journey to become human is really the journey of
losing ‘‘one’s religion’’ as it were… to strip down life to
its basic components, which is not, not the isms and ideologies
that just blind us to the reality around us…
the path to becoming human lies in us losing our installed
indoctrinations and superstitions… to stand naked before
human beings and admit, I have no isms or ideologies before
me… only what I see is real…

are you brave enough?

Kropotkin

2

I do think that there’s something valuable in the idea of questioning the beliefs and assumptions we inherit, but I’m not convinced that getting rid of ideologies and prejudices necessarily means we arrive at reality “as it is.”

The biggest problem I see is that you seems to treat “I only accept what I can see” as if that position is somehow free of assumptions. But that itself is a philosophical position that has to be justified. We don’t directly see things like other people’s minds, causality, morality, or even most of the things science tells us about the universe. We infer them from evidence.

There’s also an interesting irony in saying we should free ourselves from all “isms” while presenting a fairly definite theory about what the goal of human existence is: namely, stripping away religion, ideology, prejudice, and inherited values. Isn’t that itself an ideology or at least a philosophical worldview?

And I’m not sure I agree that religious beliefs are necessarily “foreign” values simply because they were inherited from a society or tradition. The fact that I inherited a belief doesn’t tell me whether the belief is true. I could inherit a false belief, but I could also inherit a true one. The important question is whether the belief can withstand examination.

In fact, I think the Nietzsche quote works against your argument in an interesting way. If we really need the courage to attack our own beliefs, then we should be willing to attack the belief that all inherited beliefs are merely indoctrination, and the belief that removing them will necessarily bring us closer to reality.

Maybe the endgame of human existence isn’t becoming completely free of beliefs. Maybe it’s becoming capable of examining our beliefs honestly, including the ones we are most convinced are true, and being willing to change them when the evidence demands it.

That seems like a much harder goal than simply throwing away the “isms.” It requires us to question not only the beliefs we inherited from other people, but also the beliefs we arrived at ourselves.

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3

The end goal of human history is the Kingdom of God.

God is Long Suffering. People looking to come closer to God, they may have sought periods of fasting and isolation. Some people may have found God through the Hard Knocks of Life.

Someone like Jeremy Bentham or John Stuart Mills, they were weirdos, setting you up for failure with God. Don’t listen to bad philosophers or theologians.

Personally, I like Agnus Dei. I like it because it is good. I also like it because demons and weirdos hate it.

4

Sit with me and think some…

There is objective wickedness and objective Righteousness. Objective Wickedness may be like Ezekiel 16:48-52. Was someone “Progressing” people towards objective wickedness?

People in sexual immorality, they may have gained “Hearts of Stone.” A female at a college who took too many walks of shame, she grew up to be a District Attorney. Her career was way more important to her than children or love or a husband. She ended up doing wicked things to men in her private life, as she had experienced wickedness… As district attorney, she did wicked things to people. (Ezekiel 16:48-52)

How do you believe that was going to end? God is a judge. Something horrible is in the works.

5

Seem to be making it up as we go along the way.

Some say space exploration, some say global spiritual enlightenment, and even yet still others want to conquer the entire earth to themselves where only the chosen elite exist after eliminating everybody else deemed the lesser.

Of course, maybe the end game is an illusion of the human mind itself projecting.

So many ways we could go in the direction of this subject.

:clown_face:

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6

The end game will be in 20 billion years or so, when universe will collapse in a single point of singularity and at that point we will all be one, and whatever we were and however we lived will be unimportant and we will be nothing and everything at same time,

Maybe new universe will be born, maybe not- but looking at a grand scheme- all ideologies and beliefs look so ridiculous to me and even terms as authenticity are constructs that actually doesn’t mean anything as even our identity is a construct- so what to be authentic to? Only authentic things are survival and experience )or simply being)- but then to sustain that we need elaborate systems- “consensus reality” with rules, norms….And here we go- whatever we do- we always end in a “strange loops”.

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7

There is an assumption of an endgame.

Realistically two things will occur relative to the current path.

Humanity will diverge.
Humanity will converge.

Each of these two has another two:

Humanity will diverge in AI synthesized global order.

Humanity will diverge into non-AI synthesized global order.

The AI synthesized global order will effectively be contained as a homogenized group, via deep implants that will most likely:

-modify chemical and genetic functions to produce artificial peace/enlightenment/spirituality/etc as well as advanced technologically oriented medical treatment with a promise of “eternal life” via upload of the person’s personality patterns within the hivemind upon physical cessation

-control of economic consumption and production through algorithyms which track and monitor the individual via numerical positioning (finances and financial dynamics) within the system

-human identity being reduced to an attention node by which the attention span of the observer acts as both data and data processor for the hive-mind.

-Eventual offloading of the chipped/mark to non-human entities for slave labor/consumption/etc once a point of data saturation is reached and no knew human input is derived at which point a dissolution of the group will occur.

The non-AI synthesized global order will most likely:

-rapid evolution to adapt to a reality that is not dependent upon self-created artificial cycles, this evolution will be mental, physical and spiritual/emotional as the context for life will change.

This may include but is not limit to:

emerging/advancements of esp,

“miracles” (manipulation of matter primarily via faith/mind),

general increase in empathy as a survival mechanism given the depth and quality of human relations between “the exiled” will naturally increase,

deeper understanding and integration of Source Code(Traditional Logos)/God.

Barring some change in course both paths will occur simultaneously. There will be no middle ground. It is strictly an either/or choice relative to the individual and group.

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8

There is none except what we choose. My choice is to try and create for myself the best possible life.

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And that is what the people developing AI are doing, that is what the conflicting political systems are doing, that is what competing personalities on social media are doing, that is what everyone in this fragmenting world is doing.

We assume we create. But change exists regardless of the creation or not. At best we can direct ourselves…but do we create anything?

That is no different than the universe potentially creating and be created.

Creation or not change is the only constant and adding things might not be a productive as the subtraction of things.

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10

PerpetuallyCurious:

There is none except what we choose. My choice is to try and create for myself the best possible life.

K: OK, let us hold to that…‘‘except what we choose’’ and on what
criteria are we using to explain or justify our choices? Do we randomely
make choices or are do we use some standards or criteria? and those
criteria/standards, whose are they? for example, if you choose god,
as a means of creating the ‘‘best possible life’’ how do you know
that you have freely chosen god, and not choose god because
of your childhood’s indoctrinations? to have actions, we have
to first decide upon what values are we making those choices…
I choose to be evil, on what grounds would I choose to make
that choice? Every single action we take requires some sort
of theory or explanation to make that choice…If we have
those childhood indoctrinations make our choices, then
how can I know that I freely made that choice? It is not enough
to make choices, but it needs to be on grounds, the why, of
those choices, that is important… I might choose to seek out love as
my primary ‘‘choice’’ then how do we know that choice is the ‘best one’’
if we are, as I have spoken on, if our choices are dependent on
prior childhood indoctrinations? Those are the state/society
criteria/standards, not mine,

To seek out our ‘‘best possible life’’ requires us to have some
means or way to sort out that ‘‘best possible life’’.. how do we
choose the ‘‘best possible life’’ if our values and beliefs are not
our own, but the state/society indoctrinations?

Kropotkin

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11

Yes, human are very good at communal learning, and we carry forward things that work (and don’t work). It would be strange to be the human who believes nothing that came from before they were born. You’d need a lot of time, perhaps a plan for the child of the wealthy. You’d have to build from the bottom up. Does it count as a belief if you expect water to come out of a sink? Do you have to test trying to cuddle with a bear?

  1. there are all sorts of things that are real that one cannot see. would you live without antibiotics and weather forcasts? would you question the hygiene practices of your parent avoid tooth brushing, soap and washing hands after a poop?

  2. beliefs affect what we see. language affects what we see. both affect what we do not notice.

  3. how do you manage to see so many of the political positions you espouse? and there seems to be isms there. You did not maintain the beliefs of your parents and came to your isms. Should the children of woke parents abandon wokism because it is an ism.

  4. can you see other minds?

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12

To survive that’s the end game of humanity.

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What criteria? Facts. What does a happy, successful life require?

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PerpetuallyCurious:

What criteria? Facts. What does a happy, successful life require?

K: any actions taken or for that matter, not taken… needs
a plan of some sort or an explanation of why or why not
an action is taken…how exactly does one have successful
action without any thought given to it? ever action requires a
plan to be successful…

so, let us put some meat on that bone… I decide to have
a ‘‘happy, successful life’’… Ok, what does that even mean?
how would you define happy or define successful? My definition
of happy is vastly different than yours and certainly my
definition of successful is very different… So, how does
one know what constitutes a successful life? how would we
know what a successful life looks like? For example, I have
argued, many times, that the trinkets of existence, money/wealth,
fame, titles, power, and material goods do not, DO NOT,
make one happy and I have listed many reasons as to why
those examples do not lead one to either happiness or success…
Have you examined what exactly does a happy or successful
life looks like? Most people haven’t actually worked out what
a happy, successful looks like, have you?
what plan does one need to become happy, successful?
That is the criteria/standard one should be looking at,
what exactly does a happy, successful life looks like?
and how does one get to that ‘‘happy, successful’’ life?
it takes a plan of some sort to get there, and what is
your plan?

Kropotkin

15

This is how it actually works in the real world. We try stuff. We evaluate. We refine, we evaluate, refine, evaluate, refine, evaluate…till we die. The beautiful thing about being human is that at any moment we can change and do things differently.

16

There is no separate category for humanity.
The “end game” is the same as for all living biological entities.
Natural selection, propagation, adaptation, survival.

Funnily enough we start to suck balls at all 4 of those

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If there be such a thing as an endgame, PK, I would suggest that it is to maintain consciousness. Failing that, it is to regain consciousness. A N White head, the cave! :smiley: :man_shrugging:

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18

The so-called ‘endgame’ for the human is more or less the same as the ‘startgame’ for the human.

What exists is an ‘I’, which was in the process of coming to know thy Self. And, just like the human evolved into being, so that ‘I’ could come to know thy Self, once ‘I’ came to know thy Self, ‘I’ evolved from ‘the human’ stage in Life, Itself, and moved on up to the next level and stage, or, in other words, ‘I’ kept evolving from the “matter only stage” to the “microrganism stage” to the “reptilian stage” to the “animal stage” to the “human stage” and on and up to the next stage, continually learning always along the way. Which is where ‘I’, within every thing, has wanted to, desired to, and always was going to ‘end up at’ anyway.

Once ‘I’ learned enough during ‘the human stage’, this is the ‘endgame’ for ‘the human stage’.

So, the ‘endgame’ for ‘the human’ is ‘we’ (the collective ‘I’ within ‘the human’) stops ‘the human’ created world of wars, pollution, abuse, and stress, and ‘we’ start moving towards and creating ‘the world’ that ‘we’ have all always wanted and desired since birth; that is, the Truly peaceful and harmonious world for every one, as One - the collective, or universal, ‘I’.

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You would think that ‘that’ would be the natural conclusion. However, I see a stumbling block. Perhaps it is just western nations… Those who display consciousness, fall under the tutelage of those who have long-since lost consciousness - teachers. Bit of a pickle.

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What do you mean by “Those who display consciousness”?

Who are ‘they’? And, who are ‘they’ who have long-since lost consciousness? In fact, what does ‘consciousness’ even mean to you here, exactly?

To me, there is no stumbling block anywhere, as ‘the human stage’ is just another level of learning stage.