I am not a very social person but lately I’ve been going out a lot as a kind of philosophical experiment. Now I may have a jaded view because of my personal situation but it really seems like the only reason people go out is so that they can all pet themselves on the back. They drink as much as need be and proceed by telling everyone how nice they all are. This is of course accompanied by some mundane babble and the forging of some superficial relationships.
But why do these people seek acceptance so badly ? What is the purpose of this nightlife ? I often rationalize my actions and I can’t come up with any rational explanation for this phenomenon. Maybe it is just an outlet, mindless entertainment or a personal reality show. In that case, why do some intellectuals go out instead of seeking other kinds of entertainment that stimulate the mind more ?
You make it sound like people don’t consciously decide to have a nightlife. Because if they do, they must have some kind of philosophy to back it up. Maybe I’m giving them too much credit but they can’t all be mindless sheep, can they ?
I might be looking for philosophy in an unconventional place but I find it hard to believe that there are no compelling philosophical arguments to be found in defense of nightlife. It would be such a bummer to have to tell all these people their efforts are pointless.
What efforts? Why is it so hard to conceive that different things give different people pleasure? Going out is a stimulant. I personally don’t drink, yet I still thoroughly enjoy going out and dancing and meeting new people and seeing new places. I don’t need a philosophical thesis to back up why I enjoy going out, and claiming that people go out because they crave acceptance is just unfounded. Shock! Horror! It’s fun. It’s like asking someone, ooh, why do you enjoy fishing if there is no philosophical argument supporting it?
I apologise for the tone of my post, but I am a little fed up of pseudo-intellectual ramblings
OK, so different people like different things. But in this reply you have obviously expressed your philosophy on going out. You do it because you think it’s fun and from your tone I deduct that it is natural to you that everyone should just do fun stuff. This sure sounds like a philosophy to me.
Pseudo-intellectual ? I wasn’t trying to be intellectual. I just had a sincere question on my mind and if you think it is a stupid one so be it.
According to Aristotle, life is distinguishable into three parts: work, recreation and leisure. You work so you can live; you do leisure because that’s what you really should do as a rational person; and recreation refreshes you for more work.
Maybe recreation can refresh you for more leisure as well. Drinking and chats with friends of pleasure are likely very human ways of relaxing. We are social animals and these intellectuals you know probably are resting from their studies in a very human way – even if they are relaxing their mind in doing it.
Interesting. The way I used to look at it was that you only have a certain amount of time to divide between work, recreation and leisure. Recreation seemed like the perfect one to cut down on to enable you to spend your time on the more “important” things. But I suppose that mere sleep isn’t enough to refresh the weary mind.
I believe it was Alexandar Dumas who said everything worth disscussing should be talked over sober and drunk. Who says you must always be talking about mundane babble when you go out. Doesn’t it all depend on your company.
And I’ll give you one great reason for going out. Cure for lonilness and as Karolina said above for fun. I think your really taking issue with the atmosphere of where most people go out such as loud bars, clubs, restarants right? What about nice mellow jazz clubs, concerts, lounges, comedy clubs, shows, plays ect. Ever think its just fun to do stuff with people? A family goes out to the circus, carnival whats the best part of the exprience? Doing something enjoyable together is it not? Being in a relaxed atmosphere without pressure and being able to live, enjoy life.
First Off I have to say I got a philosophy degree from a university in New Orleans, LA, so most of my philosophical debating was actually done in bars over beer, whiskey or cheap pink shots.
Check out the Situationists - Guy Debord and others for a couple of cool ideas about partying.
I actually have a Philosophical defense for heavy drinking, one-night stands, loud storytelling outside Of Quill’s and Madigan’s, running down to the French Quarter at two in the morning to continue the evening, setting bonfires in Fauburg Marigny on Lundi Gras and generally wildin’. The world is all in flux, from the core of the earth to the reaches of space. The flow and spree of partying recreates this flux in the heart of the participant. To party is to participate in the flow of the world. Secondly, according to georges dumezil sovreignty amongst indo-european nations is split between the archetypes of Jupitor Stator and Fides or Romulus and Numa. The First is the magician warrior king whose creative violence founds a kingdom but cannot maintain it. It takes the stable, grave jurist king Numa to institutionalize the warrior king’s creation.
When one drinks and parties and carries on, one remembers the drunken violent creativity of Romulus. This balances with the sober institutions of one’s daily life.
There you go, a franco-irish philosophical justification for nightlife, or How Gettin' Fucked up is the Structuralist Way to Live.
h3m
nightlife:
1 -leisure
2 - Being-with-others
3 - mating
4 - a modern day Symposium
5 - to intoxicate ourselves with opiates
6 - dancing
7 - booze booze booze
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume Wilhelm Friedrick Hegel.
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine who was just as schloshed as Schloegel.
There’s nothin’ Nietzsche couldn’t teach ya ‘bout the raisin’ of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.
John Stewart Mill, of his own free will, on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away; half a crate of whiskey every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Hobbes was fond of his dram.
Rene Descartes was a drunken fart. “I drink therefore I am.”
Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed.
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he’s pissed.
There is a philosophy behind everything, including night life. These people choose to be there instead of somewhere else and having fun another way. What’s the reason why people want to have fun?
Dont know, but it’s a question…
" Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." but I’m sure you’ll correct me in your bad German.
But you HAVE mentioned Wittgenstein, Whitey, as you mention all your influences in every post, but you refuse to take responsibility for them or for your Statist hun “interpretations” of them.
You earlier said
This is a method of doing philosophy that is so sterilized and eugenicized that it is worthless. you will be left with little to do but jack off with battered copies of old Rorty books and Some Witty Wittgenstein articles.
Whitey, your type of philosophy is so Limited that it looks for nothing but its own ass. If I were to lend you two hands, do you think you could find it?
Just some food for thought…what is your ‘personal situation’? Perhaps experiences from the past have caused you to cast a negative light on these forms of nightlife? Also, why do you view it as an ‘experiment’… maybe in doing so it is affecting your ability to enjoy yourself?
umm… perhaps that may be a tad unfair generalization of those who have an active nightlife, or should we say - have an active social life. But I think I understand where you are coming from. Personally, whether I’m clubbing or enjoying a moonlight symphony, I try to engage in more than ‘mundane blabble’. Unfortunately, there are those who are too self-absorbed (or drunk) to realize the others.
I think it is our fundamental human need to be accepted and welcomed by others. It is a reason why I joined ILP lol! It’s seldom fun to be the kid looking out the window and seeing others on the playground. As for the purpose of nightlife (socializing), well, I think that is free to you to determine. No one said anyone had to get drunk and blabble vociferously when enjoying a night out, they chose to.
I think everyone, not just intellectuals, should go out. Perhaps one should not equate the ideal form of mental stimulation to be a discourse session over a cup of hot cocoa. Artists derive inspiration painting in crowded city squares, poets have crafted beautiful verses in the heat of bloody wars… likewise i’m sure philosophers have found their numerous social experiences, superficial or real, amicable or incindeiary, to be beneficial in their individual quests.
wouldn’t this be a good post to mention Jean-Paul Satre, especially his “No Exit”? and, also, Plato’s “Symposium” which was nothing more than a drunken gabfest to be blunt about it.
the thing that nees to be understood is that social inebriation goes hand in hand with intellectual, political and professional culture “outside the office”… it’s creates a new and less “formal” social situation
your problem, cuboidz, is that your trying to avoid commun social situations by staying observently on the surface and over-analyzing them rather than immersing yourself in them, to get the most out of it you might want to take the plunge sometime. if you really don’t understand why people like to “go out” then go buy some national geographic documentaries on tribal ritual celebrations, (you might even see some boobs if your lucky)… communal “party” activities are part of what makes us human and make us a group rather than singualrities… when we moderns go out to clubs and all that, its really not that much different from a tribesman dancing to a drum circle around a fire…
but back to philosophy, you might be interested in Kierkegarrd, who is well known as an avid people watcher…
to the original question here…my situation seems very similar. I go out. I try to meet people. I try to make things happen. I fail. I come back home. Depression kicks in. I hope. I pray. I wake up another day hoping that somewhere out there in the world things will be different. That something will change. That there is more good than evil in this world.
Part 1
The General Way
When I rationalize all my thoughts about nightlife I come up with only two options. Either you go out and meet people or you sit around at home depressed (unless you do not want me to take the term as general as I am doing because u can meet people during ‘daylife’ if you will).
Human being by nature are social creatures. It becomes very complicated to function propertly as a human being when you are isolated from other people. Other people confirm or deny your opinions about the world and if you do not have those confimations or denials then the only sorce you have to judge your own actions is your own mind. That can be a very dangerous thing and it is one of the sources of insanity (through isolation of the mind if you will) Relationships are necessary simply because a human beings is a rational animal and in the very nature of a human being there is a sort of desire for social activity and a connection to other human beings.
PART 2
Now I am going to try to answer your question in a specific way
If by nightlife you mean people that go out at night to clubs, drink, feel up on eachother a bit, and have some sort of short term relationships that fail, then my answer here changes a bit.
When you do during the night is always your choice. Non-philosophers and people that do not read many books or contemplete things often do go to clubs and drink and have your so called superficial relationships. ‘I believe’ the reason for that is that they too are looking for purpose. Noone has taught them about the Aristotles and Platos and things such as a connection to the divine essence and rationality as a purpose in life. They go for what they think is the most adventageous for them. Its sad to say but many do not see any greater good in life than pleasure. Pleasure is as high as the higharchy goes for those type of people and it is very complicated to educate them on greater eternal self-sufficient views on happiness.
I take it that your ability to rationalize things proves that you are at least aware of some of the issues that go on deep within the mind of a fully actualized human being and therefore the drinking,clubs, nightlife thing feels like a different world for you. (my guess here). I recently started going to the club every sunday and adding to my nightlife and as much as I used to think in the same sort of negative way as your original comment was, I found it possible to spread goodness and help people out.(Even when you have been drinking at some club its possible to be rational and help other people out that do not seem fully happy). The key here is to not do what you are doing (to look at nightlife as some negative thing, with drinking and superficial relationships that truly seem to have no meaning).
If you stick around long enough with the nightlife, you will even find ways to save people. To make others happy when they cant see past their own nightlife into the real purpose of their life.
Altogether, nightlife is what you make it. Every human being needs social interactions, but whether you do it at night or day or whenever, its up to you. Just do not depress yourself sitting at home trying to figure out the point to nightlife. If you really want to know the point get out there and learn by experience. If you stick around long enough you will see the good and the bad of nightlife (just like anything else has its good and its bad) and then you can weigh the two and see if its worth going out at night.
