What is the source of authority?

If you beleive that God is the source of all authority and you abide by exactly what God asks of you. Surely it is because you believe God is, doesn’t that make you the source of authority. If you believe emperically viable testable evidence is the source authority. It is because you believe it is, again that makes you the source of authority. If you accord perfect belief to the Bible and say it is the source of authority it is because you say it is, again you are the source of authority. It seems that it has always been and will always be that all authority is your own.

Authority belongs to he that takes it.

If you say so.

Enslin…although the good doctor is part right, surely you can come up with a better response than that. As for me, why I said he’s part right, is because I favor the more psychological approach:

The source of authority comes from arrogant greed, thus leading those who have such a trait well developed to then “take it.”

I guess ultimately force is the practical source of all authority. If you mean authority in the temporal sense.

I mean authority by way of an accepted source of expert information. If you feel that these are the laws that one should abide by the one who is saying so is you, it’s not the laws that are authority it is you. Hence if

it is true for you if you say so. All authority is your own.

Acceptence of authority is subjective… but the existence of authority is something else…

If we use gravity as an example… You might not accept that newton was right… and deny that gravity even exists… but you might still die after jumping off a building… your acceptence of something OUTSIDE of yourself is NOT a precondition for it’s existence…

unless you deny the existence of objectivity… in which case… you are arguing for solipsism… and that would be a wierd thing to do… :stuck_out_tongue:

There are a few that would suggest that there is no authority. That there is no ‘big boss in the sky’. Obviously, there is human authority as has already been referred to, but it seemed that you were making a statement about ‘divine’ authority, and that personal belief is always the source of such authority.

In eastern thought, there is no boss. All that is is ‘self so’, or in itself, so.
Your hair doesn’t ask permission to grow, it does so without external direction or force. The “ten thousand things” perform their function within the nature of what they are. The rythyms of coming and going proceed without direction. It is possible for humanity to ‘meddle’, but this is the beginning of chaos and the introduction of the word, authority.

JT

I making a special case that since acceptence of authority is subjective, it makes you the authority. Since afterall you are the one who is accepting or dening. Making authority a special case that is without the existence of objectivity.

Authority comes in many shapes and sizes…

But if I understand you right you are speaking of information…

If we think of information as data… then you “decide” what you considere good data and what you consider bad data…

but if everything is messured by it’s influence… then ALL data has influence… meaning that something must exist prior to being “denied”…

If all authority is subjective, making the Ego the only authority… then the word “authority” is made to mean “choice”… seeing as how there is no such thing as an “outside” authority… everything is by choice…

you are arguing for free will… which does not contradict the existence of a god…

I suppose it is over free will but if we have freewill then my deduction is that you are the authority. God would not be the authority over you unless you decide it so, therfore God is not the authority you are. You always were.

ah but the question of free will is a complicated one…

What are you if not a product of your circumstances? and who or what controls your circumstances?

Would that person or thing not be an authority?

You only need the slightest touch of freewill. If you are required to make any choice however small, authority is yours. Because requiring to make a choice comes with the presupposition that you can. You may be the product of uncontrolled circumstances but if there is any chaos or randomness, or unpredictablity of any kind within the process, that results in you. Then who or what that controls the circumstances that leads to the process that leads to you doesn’t really control all the circumstances and would not be the authority.

A touch of free will?

Either we are utterly uncreative or we’re creative… IF we are creative then we do have free will… if we are not… then we do NOT…

Problem about creativity is that it’s arguably not OUR doing…

See… if I build a computer and program it to count down from 10… then is the counting MY doing? or is it the computer’s doing?

We have to consider the posibility that we’re all components… every single thought or event in our lives was pre-programed, so to speak… if so then there is absolutely NO free will…

Determinism…

I’m really suprized…

no south park fans here?

authority comes from Cartman … “You will respect my authority!!”

-Imp

For me the real problem would be chaos or unpredictability, if let’s say you program the computer to count down to 10 and sudenly you have lightning and the last number ends up being 234234 you really don’t have control in that case you wouldn’t be the authority but you did set up the circumstances and conditions to count down to 10. So rather let me rephrase if there is even the slightest bit of uncontrolled or chaos then the person setting up the conditions would not be the authority.

Agreed…

But how are we to prove either way that there exists true chaos or not?

Whatever “seems” unpredictable might only be because of LACK of knowledge… for example… the weather was unpredictable in the old days… but now we can predict up to a week or more ahead of time…

Quantum physics seems to suggest a certain amount of unpredictability… but again… this can be caused by our lack of knowledge… there is simply no way of proving it either way…

whichever the case though… the world you were born into was not of your own making…

Question remains… who or what made it?.. the question of free will has NOTHING to do with it… that is simply a question about how this world works… not how it got to exist… or if it’s always been there… or whatever…

Hi w_enslin

You may be the source of all authority but what exactly is “you”? Your stomach may be at one time, then the sex organs, then your vanity and on and on it goes. Each of all these facets you call “you” can have their five minutes of rule until the next begins its reign. So rather then one large “you” I suggest that what seems to be you is actually a collection of small "yous

Real authority is when one acquires the ability to be “master of oneself.”. That is real authority and it is our potential. At that point we would have freedom to be and real will rather than the continuous struggle between a multitude of small wills.

Very deep Nick… I agree

Worldly authority comes from agreement. When people agree that you are an authority, then you are an authority.

Either people publicly agree, or they may agree in a hidden collusive manner. Those who have more people agreeing that they have authority have a stronger authority. Likewise if you have those with authority agreeing that you have authority that gives you a stronger authority.

Direct physical force or the threat of force can be used to convince others to agree. This is the authority of the despot, the tyrant, and the dictator. Agree or I’ll kill you, your family, your friends, etc. The consequences of disagreement make agreement more likely. This agreement may also be only superficial.

A public figure has power because people agree that he has power. If everyone agreed that that person had no power then his or her authority would evaporate.

In science you become an authority if a significant number of your peers consider you an authority.

In pop-psychology you become an expert because millions of people agree with what you say in your book.

Sometime this benediction of authority comes from merit, sometimes not. A person can bluff their authority. They can present themselves to an audience as an authority and then get treated as one. A fake authority takes advantage of our inclination to respect authority.