What is Value?

Someone made a thread about what Quality is. They wrote in the thread:

“What makes a person feel or have the opinion that something is “good.””

I began trying to explain my thoughts on the subject but I kept finding it neccessary to describe my understanding of the linguistic side of this question… and so I wrote about “Value” which to me is synonymous to “quality.”

I wonder what you all think of the following? Is my analysis acurate? Is it too complicated? Is there a much easier way of saying or describing the concept? This is what I want to know.

Once I have this squared away I can realy begin thinking about the human aspect of the question.

Btw, excuse the spelling, my spell check isn’t working and I just suck at spelling in general :slight_smile:

Here it is:

What is value?

What does it mean when we say something is better than another thing? Or smarter, stronger, bigger or smaller? These are all relational words. They relate some thing A to some thing B. But the type of relationship we build when we talk of things this way is such that we invoke a specific system of value and compare A and B according to their positions in that system. We can call these types of statements value relation statements.

When we say that A is faster than B, what we are bassicly doing is imagining a number line with units of speed along it, placing A and B in their apropriate spots along that line and than describing that relationship. So saying that A is faster than B is saying that A is further right (or left depending on how you set up the number line) along this “units of speed” line. Now imagine simply switching the type of unit on this line. Instead of a “units of speed” line, it can be a “units of size” line or a “units of intelligence” line, yielding statements such as “A is bigger/smaller than B” or “A is smarter/dumber than B.” In each case there is this line, which is reprasentative of the specific system of value being invoked. Now, we may not always think about things with this number line. Every time you make a value relational statement, you may not have a number line in mind. But what is important is that in all cases one could acuratly represent the statement with a referance towards a line with the relevant units of measurement, even if the units were only theoretical.

This representative line can be anything you want it to be. And this line is how I understand value. The nature of value is in this abstract line. Once contextualized, the line becomes a specific type of value. So contained in the understanding of value is the abstract set of all comparitive charactaristics or properties. Just think about the following scenario:

You draw a line and unidentified types of units along it. You place a point A and a point B along the line. Than you show someone the relation between A and B in terms of the line. They will be aware that there is some kind of comparative relationship between A and B. Then you write under the line: “Units of Size.” What you have done is contextualized the abstract line. Suddenly, the person you are showing this to will be able to conclude that either “A is bigger than B” or “A is smaller than B”, depending on how you structure the units. But now, take one step back. Contextualizing the line only specifies the type of value we are concerned with. So the value relation statements “A is bigger than B” or “A is smaller than B” must have uncontextualized counterparts such as “A is _____ than B” wherein the blank is a positive or negative form of some abstract, unspecified term. That term is “value” or “valuable.” Upon originally seeing the unamed line with A and B, one can conclude the following: Either “A is more valuable than B” or “A is less valuable than B.”

This is the essence of the term “value”, and the answer to the original question. There are several other terms that are similar in that they are abstract, unspecific indicators of a value system. “Quality” is one of those. Good/Bad and Better/Worse are terms that indicate certain positions or relations in terms of “value” and thus are abstract and unspecified themselves.

That would take a lot of writing to discuss and will be tied up for some time so cannot address it in detail. Here is a good lecture series on this subject. Check it out.

teach12.com/ttc/assets/cours … %20History

Course Lecture Titles
Questions of Value
Facts and Values
Lives to Envy, Lives to Admire
Foundations of Ethics—Theories of the Good
Foundations of Ethics—Theories of the Right
Thoughts on Religion and Values
Life’s Priorities
The Cash Value of a Life
How Do We Know Right from Wrong?
Cultures and Values—Questions of Relativism
Cultures and Values—Hopi, Navajo, and Ik
Evolution, Ethics, and Game Theory
The Objective Side of Value
Better Off Dead
A Picture of Justice
Life’s Horrors
A Genealogy of My Morals
Theories of Punishment
Choice and Chance
Free Will and Determinism
Images of Immortality
Ethical Knowledge, Rationality, and Rules
Moralities in Conflict and in Change
Summing Up

V (Male)

For free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion, recommendation or belief of any group or organization.

Russiantank,
Don’t worry about spelling. Sartre couldn’t spell well either. Luckily he had Beauvior. There must be a connection between value and meaning. Therein lies a philosophical motherlode.

All value judgments are comparisons.

rationalizations of your interests

most value judgements are subcauntiously done by comparing how well something matches your way of looking at the world/what you value/your identity etc.

If something compares close to your paradigm/world then people tend to value it (and rationalize why they value it)

If something compares low, then the opposite.

Humans are dumb! :laughing:

I dont think people realy understood what I meant to do in the first part of my writing. I only wanted to discuss the linguistic device involved in “value” considerations and later apply my conclusions to the question of human value. But I might as well give the people what they want :slight_smile: Here is the continuation of my writing about value where I talk about human value. Note: I am currently in the process of writing this, I am posting each section I finish up for scrutiny right after I finish it.

What I want to know is if people understand what im trying to get at with the following and if they disagree with anything ive said, or have a suggestion on how to say some things better. I would apreciate any input. If anyone is confused about anything ide be glad to clarify.

Keep in mind this is all one piece of writing so there may be some referances to the first part in this second part.

Here it is:

Now let us consider human value. In my persuit to understand the human mind, I must assume that it opperates like a machine, subject to the same laws as any other system in the universe. The human mind does many things, most important among them is making choices. Humans do not act solely on instinct, totally geneticly pre-programmed behaviors, though this is one of the functions of the mind. These instictual behaviors often require input from the senses, as does our conscious choice making mechanism. But the input from the senses does not seem to be sufficient to generate choice making behavior. There must be a value infusion mechanism.

We write computer programs that make choices. I do not mean to completely equate the human mind to a computer program, there are certainly important diffirences that I will discuss. But there is an important similarity. Imagine a chess program. The computer is programmed with all the possible chess piece board positions, and it is programmed with the rules of the game that allow it to determine which board positions can be generated from the current board position. So lets say its the computer’s move and the current board position is X. The computer, using pre-programmed information, knows that from board position X it can generate board positions A, B, C, or D. This is the input. This knowledge is analogous to our knowledge of options before making a choice. When we wake up in the morning we are aware of our choices of cereal. We know we have cereal A and B in the cupboard, and that cereal C and D can be purchased at the local convenience store. The source of this information is certainly diffirent than the computer’s.

Is this information enough to produce choice? Certainly not for the computer… The diffirent options must be distinguished in some way such that the distinction provides the system with information about the option’s “choice worthiness.” Note: “choice worthiness” is a specific value system in that it can be represented with a number line whose units of measurement are “units of choice worthiness.” The programmers can program this value system into the computer and also program the computer to generate whichever available option has the highest value of “choice worthiness.” The generation of the option is analogous to our enacting our decisions. Once weve chosen one of the cereals to eat, we act in a manner that we believe will generate the circumstance that we were just considering as an option. So what is analogous to the computer’s input of the “choice worthiness” value system? This is what I call the Human Value Infusion Mechanism (HVIM).

Somehow the input of available options, provided by our senses, must be distinguished according to some natural value system. Lets imagine that the HVIM operated as follows: The value system is totally geneticly preprogrammed. Certain complex circumstances like the visual experience of a fast moving object flying towards you seem to be predicted by our dna in that this specific circumstance is able to automaticly trigger a specific reaction as is the case with instinctual behavior. And so are certain complex circumstances written into our genetic programming as part of a value system. For example: Watching the TV show Friends is of the highest value on the HVIM value system. Eating Lucky charms is second highest, and doing homework is lowest. This would certainly be sufficient in generating human choice, but only in very specific circumstances. Unlike a chess game, the real world is not bound by such simple rules and restrictions and is thus very unpredictable. So this HVIM would certainly not be able to account for the whole of human action. Also, this HVIM is not at all compatible with the theory of evolution. I will strive to propose a HVIM that does not suffer from these and other inconsistencies.

where did you read that? and where can i find it…

M.C.,
Hazel Rowley, " Tete 'a Tete", HarperCollins, N,Y., 2005.
R.T., Sorry, I’m not into linguistic analysis for good reasons. I’m sure you’ll find many who are for reasons just as good.

Value = Stimulation = Connection.

Value = Need x Accessibility

And these are only felt through the stimulation by means of awareness. So it is a connection.

Has anyone considered that there might be objective value and subjective value?

It’s hard to argue that food doesn’t have an objective value, as one must have it to live and if hungry enough most food tastes fairly good. Don’t eat for two days and then make a meal of your least favorite food.

Example, I once feasted on a monkey, and was quite happy about it.

Subjective value might to our interest in something like diamonds. From what I understand, these things are worthless, but that can’t be told by the behaviour of most. Certainly, paper money is another great example.

Yes because the subjective is the social behavior of the objective.

What does that mean Dan?

Yeah, Dan,
Are you pulling A Monty Python on us? :smiley: