Can somebody here proove existence of " Wrong " ?
What is " Wrong " in this World we Live in ?
Can somebody really blame Nature, to be " Wrong " ?
We have survived circa 3500000 years of Existence, what can possibly be
" wrong " about That ?
Why Is Death wrong If IT IS from God ?
So far, the Only reason for Birth, Is Death, and other way around.
I like to say " It’s ALL Good ", but actual situation Is " It’s ALL God ".
much mad respect, and sweet love !
Jewpiter
I can prove existence of wrong.
This Is Physical proof that I’m all Eyes and Ears, produced by Your Physical
Existence.
Nothing is wrong with death nor any of the natural laws, right and wrong do not apply to things that don’t have a choice.
Only humans can be wrong by choosing to do something that is purely selfish at the expense of others, that’s why it is wrong. Selfishness is wrong when it is extreme enough to hurt others for personal gain and this is the opposite of Love.
So, Belief in " Our choice ", gives birth to belief of " wrong " ?
What you saying is, People have " choice " for everything between
birth and death ?
So every person who made their Last choice, and Died in any accident,
Did by " Our choices " commit suicide.
Because that Last choice was their choice also, right ?
Did your Parents made choice for YOU to be Born, or just to have Baby ?
much love
Jewpiter
I didn’t say everything you do is choice, that was your idea.
I said that everything not governed by laws are choices and only humans can choose within this limited system. Its becomes wrong when you choose to serve your desires and that action causes pain to someone else.
Jewpiter, you’ve already proven the existence of ‘wrong’ by asking for proof.
I think he is talking about morality. Is there such a thing as morally wrong, not is there a correct or incorrect.
Your proof is clever, though.
Thank you! I do think that even moral right and wrong lies at the foundation of reasoning (or at least, the reasons we reason), but I’ll have to admit that hasn’t been proven just yet. If we probed, Jewpiter would no doubt find the person who believed on insufficient grounds to be culpable, wouldn’t you suspect so?
World we live in, Is governed either by Nature Law, or Man made Law.
Ther is no third Law. Within those premises, every situation we found ourselves In, was directly produced by choices we made.
Now, what I’m trying to explain Is, we can’t call those choices " ours ",
because we did not choose to be exact way that we are.
It is all done by our DNA, that defines all our characteristics.
You say it is wrong when we make choice that serves our desire.
That " our " desire, wasn’t our choice, It was already wowen into whole
package of " ours ".
That unknown reason that made Us pick " our " choices Is GOD.
And that’s why Nothing Is wrong, everything Is exactly the way It
supposed to be.
It is called Destiny, and due to abnormal amount of Love, that we feel
by being alive, It is not supposed to be felt as " predestination "
It’s like having a leased Car. Our body is Leased car, and " We " are driven by God.
We do accelarate, brake, make turns, getting into accidents, getting
totaly destroyed, but Spirit driver Is not Us.
We are just few turns away from the Day, when Driver Is going to Get
out of Our Cars, become King Car Himself, and Some of Us will continue
to be eternaly US, One in functions with King Car.
So if I ask you to prove material existence of Devil, Angels, Heaven, Hell…
They exist by default, because I’ve asked for proof ??
Who’s brainchild is that Logic ?
All I’m trying to say Is, " wrong " is same as " problem ", personal emotion,
towards existing Situation. And situations are All there Is.
If something Is for some people wrong, and same thing for others perfectly
fine, than by default everything just IS. Situation.
No, Hell no, morality is hyper Illusion, that is a no , no.
To play God, and tell others what to do, So against nature, so midle ages.
" clever proof " ? You’re jumping on bandwagon, that Is not set in motion,
and Is not going anywhere.
Ouch, that hurts UCeyesore, I do not judge people.
If you guys don’t feel and understand platform of Truth, based on material existence, and constantly aplying Emotions to create conclusions, I am Not
forcing nothing, we’re all friends here, and Life is all that counts.
Life that goes On that Is, wrong, right, problem, evil, sin, whatever
You guys feel, I feel You.
That you think I was accusing you of judging people is acceptable. That accusing you of judging people is apparently in your mind some sort of grave insult that needs address and clarification means you and I probably won’t see eye to eye on much. That you find it important to point out that you don’t judge people further proves the existence of morality- or at least, proves that you apply and use moral thought.
Why do you continually insist on projecting your ideas upon me, I did not say anything about a “Third Lawâ€, I said Law’s, maybe you should ask next time to be sure. I meant the natural laws like the laws of Physics and Nature and in the context I don’t see how it could be taken to mean anything else.
The idea of a limited choice environment does not invalidate the idea that there is still a choice. We choose to either serve ourselves and step on others while doing this, or we choose to consider the effect on others and control our urges so they don’t interfere with the livelihood of others.
Sorry but I cant agree with this, we are more then this flesh and blood and I can site many examples as to why. Consider mental pain, why does it hurt so much, where is the cause of such effect and how is it strictly physical?
So God is a great puppet master and makes us do his will? Pleeeese, that idea is easily refuted with a world of evidence that would make God an evil contradictory liar and thus not a God at all.
Of course I was joking with " Ouch ", I don’t have emotions, other than Love
And if I’m trying to explain myself, It’s love that do not want to leave me being misunderstud.
What you trying to say, that If I think and say that moral norms that other people are implementing and practicing, are nonexistent in my state of mind,
I apply and use moral thought ?
How can that be moral thought if I negate moral ?
When I say " I do not judge people ", I did Not accuse you of Judging me,
I just simply state the way I feel about others, and not judge them.
Even If I say, " You are judging me ", I am not accusing you, because
I’m merely describing relation between my and your thought, for which
we both can not be wrong.
That was main reason of this topic, so people can differ a Person, from
Personal Opinions, thoughts, beliefs, doctrines or whathave you.
I can’t stand any Religion, in sense of Not being truth, not emotionaly,
but I love and respect All Believers.
I am just telling the truth, there Is nothing moral or imoral about that.
There is no reason for you to attach some atributes to my analogy, only
because you feel they are there.
Why would I have to justify the way I feel to you, or other way around.
Truth is Only One, there can’t be more than One explanation for One
Situation.
I am Not, and never said You are wrong, wich is main subject here, there
is no wrong people, don’t want you to feel atacked. I am constantly presenting the facts to back up my explanation.
Here you go again, I just told you, we always choose, calling those choices " Ours " is not politically correct.
Step on others ? There are mass murderers out there doing God’s
work.
What else are We but flesh and blood, Please ??
I have no clue what is " mental pain ".
Physical pain is #1 human emotion, same Impuls as belief, fear, joy,
love, anger, sadness.
Any GP Doctor will tell you that, basics of Medicine.
Puppet master is only a Metaphore, God is Everything, therefore It
can not exist as Material Entity. Simple people read Stories, and
create their versions, do not pay attention to any Religion, they are All
Lie.
Just like there was Jesus, a Man, who died 1967 years ago, there will
be a Man who’s true Identity will not be known, not even by His friends
wife, family, No One will know who Is God Incarnate Today.
So It is utterly unimportant to talk about that.
That is According to that book, not my words
If we did prove that, then would it not follow that our moral rights and wrongs are deductible and necessarily the way they are ?
That is to say, if morality is an imperative of reason, then it should come in the form of a universal and necessary rule, at least for our intellects (each and every one’s intellect).
If that were true, you’d be a crazy person not fit to do philosophy. I usually take people at their word, but I’m going to assume hyperbole here. 
No. I’m saying that if you ask for ‘proof’, then you’re implying that believing without proof is wrong. I’m saying that it’s very obvious that you think there’s something wrong with judging other people. I’m saying that there is a moral reason why you chose to say that the only emotion you feel is Love.
There are a few, analytic cases in which you don’t get to pick what your words mean, if you want other human beings to understand what you are saying to them. Yes, if you say “you are judging me”, you are accusing someone of judging you. Sorry, but you are.
Test: Who gives a shit if you love and respect people? What, you want a cookie? Maybe I’d be more impressed if you mocked and derided them instead.
Are you telling me that you do and say moral things, make moral requests of others, loudly promote your own loving, caring, and understanding, your dedication to the truth, and your open-minded tolerance of other people, in the adversity of your disagreement with their claims, you parade all that stuff about yourself, and yet there is not a moral thought in your head? So what, you’re doing and saying all the things that post-modern counter culture says are good, and avoiding all the things it says are bad, through magical coincidence? Or are you trying to maniuplate somebody?
The point is, phone books 'just tell the truth'. Human beings pick to say certain things, and choose to not say other certain things. Even if it is true, there's a reason why you chose to tell me all about how loving you are, and there's a reaction you expect from people when you tell them. That it's true is not a sufficient reason- there's plenty of true things you could have said but haven't. I'm wearing two grey socks, and furthermore, my turtle ate a piece of frozen carrot last night. His name is Godzilla.
Actually, feeling that they are there is a perfectly good reason to ‘attach attributes to your analogy’. What other reason could their possibly be? I’m not going to make claims against what I feel, or claims based on what some other guy feels, now am I?
I don’t know. Why have you attempted to do so? Why will you continue to do so?
On this we agree.
Mucius Scevola
Proving that our reasoning was based on morality wouldn't prove that morals are objective, but it would prove that we have to[i] consider[/i] them as such if we want dialectic to be reasonable. It would amount to just one more thing we have to not be skeptical about, evidence or no, if we want to function right.