LOL, my significant other was single for eleven years, and has zero problems with shopping for any product, and I sure as hell can change a flat tire. However, forget the car repair-I was never taught as my gonads were in the wrong place. However, we both swap household and yard chores, and we know how to wipe our own ass without help.
Whatâs the problem Joker? No woman willing to put out, and youâre feeling frustrated?
Ah, the stimulation and beauty of a regular, monogamous sex life! Eat your heart out children.
Fascinating. so you did not read the entire thread? LOL
LOL, the 50âs were a time of racism and sexism. Lynchings and uncontrolled domestic violence occurred. The rape victim was the one accused, âwhat did you do to cause him to rape you?â Shit, even during the 70âs girls had to wear dresses and skirts to school. Women we not allowed equity in the workplace if they wanted to remain single, or wanted to leave a abusive husband.
Go read a history book!
Where do these uneducated idiots come from?
Technology is missing from the various claims. The issue of strength may be moot, as eventually robots will be able to do what most humans cannot physically do., and are currently doing so in automobile plants. That is, a woman can run a ranch or farm just as effectively as a man as she has harvesters and helicopters to reap and herd cattle. Airplanes and bombs have replaced the need for numerous combat troops. Pneumatic wrenches replace the need for brute strength to replace a tire. A mechanical pulley can remove a engine for repair.
The mechanization of the world has created more balance, and allows women freedom she has never before known. We have washers, dryers, microwaves, edgers, mowers, and both men and women can just as effectively do housework and yardwork.
Similar to Kris, I work ten and eleven hour days, but this is for pay, and great medical benefits. Thankfully, if the worst happens with my significant otherâs work, I make enough to provide for both of us. It is nice to be valued as a mate and economic contributor to the household.
=D>
[quote=âCarleasâ]
Some do submit to the learned helplessness, others do not. Often women who have made significant contributions are never given credit.
The first link is significant:
sdsc.edu/ScienceWomen/franklin.html
invention.smithsonian.org/center ⌠ntors.html
Women who decided not to marry, or wanted to be artists, or wanted to run a business were considered either eccentric, or unladylike, or a lesbian. This fear of empowered women is evidenced on this thread, especially by the very insecure Joker.
What are so many men afraid of? There have been many women considered genius, or adventurous, but also considered weird. Many women have advised kings and queens, but are not given credit.
Thankfully, Royce is not an insecure male and knows how to wipe his own ass.
=D>
Most musclemen and women shave their bodies, as do both male and female exotic dancers. ?? 
Actually, yes, I have been following this thread with interest. My point is that women cannot do certain âchoresâ as we have been told âYou cannot, because youâ have the wrong gonads.
You might be surprised regarding how many emancipated men are walking around. I use to date a guy who was a bit upset that I made tea, and brought him a cup. Why? âI do not want to become dependent on another person.â
Did you ever think that a man might be insulted that your offered to help him with the shopping. Or perhaps, a woman might be insulted is a male changed her flat tire, when she is able to??
People should only be insulted by an offer of assistance if it is rudely offered. A polite offer should never insult anyone. I donât know about anyone else but I was taught that an offer of assistance when politely offered is an act of kindness and humanity. To be insulted is to belittle both people and humanity. To return a kind offer of help with insult is the degradation.
I help short people or people in wheelchairs etc⌠get things from the top shelves at stores is that degrading to them? Or is that caring? Should I let a deaf person walk infront of a vehicle, for fear they might not apreciate being helped? I mean jeez we are a society we are supposed to help each other. I only stated one type that I help I did not mention all the others because they were not pertinent to a gender thread Oh and by the way I have had many people assist me from time to time and never not once did I feel incompetent ,second class or degraded. I guess I am just not sensitive enough. Help does not mean dependence, it just means help/assistance.
Emancapation is great but, shoving people away is an awfully high cost to pay. Should not our hands always reach out to help in case of need? Being afraid to assist someone for fear of insulting them causes a larger breach than the gender one does.
LOL, I am perfectly capable of opening my own door, thank you very much.
Depends on how the individual feels about being helped. Some may be insulted; others may not.
Perhaps you believe it is caring, but the individual may feel inadequate.
When a person can do something with little to no difficulty, and another assumes they cannot because of their disability or gender, they may be insulted.
In case of need, and in need are two different agendas.
Sure, help when needed, but try not to insult.
Smiles,
aspacia
At first I thought you were a man due to your userID and was thinking âwow, what a pussyâ but in fact you are a woman talking woman talk, angry woman talk at that by the last few lines.
Thatâs what makes this admonishment so vain and useless:
Especially when if is followed up by more angry woman talk like this:
I started this thread knowing it would be a hot button, but some of the anger spilled out in tortured prose is more than I expected. A lot of it isnât about a progressive movement at all, but rather acidic rancour reflecting peoplesâ dissatisfaction with there relations with the opposite sex. Angriness is not an attractive quality in either gender, and carrying around a profusion of it that spills onto the cyberscreen may suggest one needs the services of someone who can bring some relief. I mean that soul Ariel just quoted seemed on the brink. This isnât that much of a philosophy forum but it is clinically interesting.
Well, what did you expect RicâŚ? Lock a man and a woman together in a box for long enough, and theyâll either come out wreathed in smirks of post-coital bliss, or one of them will come out carrying the head of the other.
I mean⌠Duh.
which is why we have certain polite phrases in our languge;
Do you need help? Can I get that for you?
Or would you prefer: Hey you are in my way let me get that for you otherwise its going took take all day and I donât want to wait.
Oh come on I am going to hold that door because you canât do it and I want out too or in.
Or do you think :
Since you are obviously not as capabale as I am, let me show my superiority and get this done so that I may feel self righteous and superior.
I mean some seem to think I behave, believe and actually say it, so I may as well throw that in there⌠Hmmm , I may try it just to see the reaction of someone. Might prove an interesting experiment. I do hope I can run fast though.
Because one has a difference in physical ways why would that make them less human or inadequate? It is the mind that counts. Not the body.
being afraid to to help or assist or even offer because you may insult them, you already put them lower than yourself. You would not hesitate to help someone that has no physical differences would you? So why hesitate? It is the person inside that counts not the outside.
Sorry for the delayed response.
Satyr, why do you say that physical dominance and mental dominance are necessarily joined? Wouldnât that entail that humans are the strongest animal, or that whales are the smartest? Or that football players are the smartest people or that Stephen Hawking is among the strongest? I donât see any reason to suspect that if men dominate physcially they must dominate mentally as well.
How and why did they become the dominant sex? Through physical force. In early society, order was enforced by brute strength. Only the strongest member of a tribe or group could maintain power (it functions the same way in many pack animals today; when the leaderâs strength lags, they lose control and they are challenged). As society budded under the control of the strongest, strength was valued primarily for long enough to cement a system where women, who did not evolve to hunt, were considered non-considerations. Leadership was initially defined as strength, and by the time strength was not the foremost consideration, leadership had already come to entail male-ness.
Kris, I read the article. I donât see where youâre coming from. The conclusions in the article are pretty solid: People choose their mates based on observable similarities (attitudes and values) and marital satisfaction is largely dependent on deeper similarities (personality characteristics). If you could point to the specific parts you find to support your case, it would be helpful.
The criticism that the study is only of newlyweds is misleading. âAt the time of the assessment, the couples had been married an average of 153.9 days (range = 25-452) â that is, approximately 5 months. They indicated that they had known each other an average of 4.7 years (range = <1 year-30 years) and had been dating approximately 3.5 years earlier (range = <1 year-15 years).â New marriages do not necessarily indicate new relationships. Though they didnât follow the couple, they did get a diverse group in terms of relationship length.
Besides, this is the best study that exists as far as I can tell. If you have another study whose methodology you prefer that indicates something different, please share it. But it seems that this minor shortcoming for the study in question doesnât support your position, it just (ever so slightly) calls into question this study. I also presented two other sources to support my position, so it seems that the findings are corroborated and that my position, that opposites do not in fact attract, is accepted as scientifically tenable.
The more recent discussion of whether you should offer to help people is an interesting one. I can appreciate the view that it is an act of kindness to offer to help someone, and that alone should not insult anyone. But the presuppositions behind it can be highly insulting. Kris, you refer to a number of examples where it would be acceptable to help someone, e.g. the deaf person and the person in a wheelchair. Obviously, helping these people is the humane thing to do, and I am not in the least condemning your compassion (quite the opposite).
But these people are unquestionably disabled. To hold that these examples indicate that it is acceptable to offer assistance to a man shopping or a woman changing a tire, is to hold that being a man is a disability when one is shopping and being a woman is a disability when one is changing a tire. People have every right to be insulted when they believe they are being assumed to be disabled when they are not, and I think the presupposition behind the offer is insulting to any automotively inclined woman or shopoholic man.
So while it is acceptable, even respectable, to offer assistance to the disabled, if your conception of who should be considered disabled comes from bigotry or bias, you shouldnât be surprised or indigant that someone takes it as an insult.
I think women should be empowered. That way I can use my charm rather than my merit to get places in life. For instance, the person I report to at my job is the #2 person in the whole place. Sheâs got a PhD in chemistry, and PhD in philosophy, a masterâs in physics and did her undergrad in biology. Sheâs about as empowered as they come. The other lady who I deal with there has a PhD too. Theyâre both empowered. If these two were guys, theyâd get fed up with my smart ass nature pretty quick. But I always get along better with women. I say thank God for empowered women, because they can give me a job.
I am a man, but it really doesnât matter to this thread.
the last lines are not just âangry women talk,â it is an observation of the way the world is now, with some prose and color ful words to make the sentence less boring to type for me. But yes, I âAMâ angry at men who degrade women, and I âwillâ not put up with it if I am around, nor am I ashamed of my anger at these men. (I am not accusing you in geneneral ariel, but all men or women who continually either degrade or trivilize others in any way from a full happy life.)
the real âpussy menâ are the ones who act like assholes, not the ones who stick up for others.
Where do you draw the lines between degrading and opinion with regards to gender talk? I think that some people think they are one and the same, and I donât think they are.
aspacia!
Uh-ohâŚyouâd better watch out, somebodyâs stepped up to label you an âangry woman talkerâ. Proceed with caution, as you have now been weakened, theyâve ferreted out your innate female foolishness; that is to say the wordâs out that youâre incapable of containing those irrational and unpredictable female emotions that will be your undoing in this den of reasonable, rational and oh-so-secure males.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Thanks guys, I needed a good cleansing laugh.
Well, that sounds good in theory, doesnât it? For instance, men are better at throwing and women have more dexterity. Men are better at mentally rotating shapes and women are better at visual memory. Men are better at solving word problems, women are better at the calculating.
(Oh wait, was I supposed to stick to the âmen are more intelligent and women are better socializersâ theories put forth by several of our esteemed fellow ILPâers thus far? Sorry!)
Youâd think weâd get that and find a degree of equanimity and happiness in creating and celebrating balance, no?
On the surface, you might think that a particular engineering problem can only be solved by the particular skills (note that I didnât write âsuperiorâ; thatâs just what those with sexual bias reading this are concludingâŚ) that men, statistically, tend to display more often. But suppose that said task can be accomplished either by representing geometry or by representing individual landmarks. Girls tend to rely on the landmarks, and boys on the geometry. And both can solve it!
But waitâŚmy god, what a despicable, feminine take on things! Whereâs that innate masculine drive to stand alone upon yonder hill, flag raised (so to speak), one foot placed before the other in the timeless symbol of leadership, ready into battle, drenched in noble cause, defender of the truth whatever the costâŚ
[i]ââŚfor look there, friend Sancho Panza, where thirty or more monstrous giants present themselves, all of whom I mean to engage in battle and slayâŚâ
âLook, your worship,â said Sancho. âWhat we see there are not giants but windmills, and what seem to be their arms are the vanes that turned by the wind make the millstone go.â[/i] - de Cervantes
In the end, balance is relative and, even more problematic, in constant flux. Its achievement canât even be evaluated until after the fact, by which time youâll be pretty assured that things have shifted some. 
IMO, what matters most is how power is defined and perceived and, ultimately, negotiated. Itâs my experience that when a woman and a man with similar understanding along these lines meet up, then thatâs great fortune for both. Itâs rare, though. So if you got it, savor it. (sigh)
[size=75][Pulls over to the kerb in his Shiny red convertable][/size]
âUh - Sâcuse me maâam ahâma lookinâ fer a place called StepfordâŚ?â
Ingenium, the problem I have with the âmen are better at x, women are better at yâ line is that, even if statistically true (i.e. on average, within the general population and over a large number of individuals the trend holds), the variation within each gender makes the finding practically useless. Even if men are better on average in all aspects of mathematics, there are still women who are better at math than 99.999+% of men, and likewise for any trait where there is some statistical sexual discrepancy. In the workplace, the statistics are useless: since youâre dealing not with the general population but with a biased sample, a woman applying for a math-heavy position who has a comparable resume to that of a man is as likely as not to be a better candidate for the position. The statistics would only make you expect more male applicants to a specific position, or more men with the relevant experiences.