what makes a law, law?

[Phaedrus]

A Law is a Rule with moral weight. A Rule is a Law without moral weight.

[dan020350]

bravo

but base on that belief the legal proccess will deteriorate gradually within the state but not men.

[free_thinker]

However, if I don’t wear my seat belt, for example, I fail to see how that could harm someone else–I mean, I suppose my body COULD fly out of the car and mess up someone’s paint job, but that seems like a law designed more to protect me from me.

Who will pay for you to be swept up? You are more likely to be seriously injured without a seatbelt. Therefore you will spend more time in hospital. Therefore I am harmed as I must pay for you to be treated, either in taxes or higher insurance premiums.

[dan020350]

I think the policies of Finland and USA are different but the philosophy is still the same !

Tell me I am right.

[JrnymnX]

@Impenitent

the only thing that makes a law a law is enforcement- otherwise it is a suggestion.

The only thing that makes a law a law in voluntary compliance.

@dan020350

Why should we obey the law?

We should obey laws because they help keep society orderly, and society is our shelter from the savage.
We should obey laws because obeying is a part of self-mastery, without self mastery we are little more than animals pretending to be ubermensch.

@dan020350

When should we not obey the law?

When they are unjust.

“I submit that an individual who breaks the law that conscience tells him is unjust and willingly accepts the penalty by staying in jail to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the very highest respect for law.” MLK

[Impenitent]

@JrnymnX

The only thing that makes a law a law in voluntary compliance.

no such thing

-Imp

[unrealist42]

Law is the codification of behavior in a society. While law is supposed to confirm the social consensus it is very often used to exert control over social behavior by one group over another.

This non-consensual lawmaking is often the cause of social unrest and increased criminality as those who do not concede the social necessity of such laws will often ignore them. Such laws are so difficult to enforce when widely ignored that being prosecuted for breaking them becomes an arbitrary act.

This undermines the foundations of law and may introduce an anarchic social situation as people come to realize the very limited power of law enforcers and begin to ignore other laws they dont agree with.

Continued enforcement may lead to a totalitarian state while repeal can rebuild the social consensus.

Law without consensus undermines its own reason for being, keeping the peace.

[dan020350]

When a law is introduced, it is often debated and if it wins, it has a sort of protection and advantage like state.

Once, the law has establish, people has this mindset, to ignore what is needed to be ignore inorder to get what they want. Then if something bad happens they sued the opponent.

The law is effective and ineffective. Because people don’t care about the law, that is it is not interesting; while people who care for the law is for the sake of order.

[my_real_name]

@Thomas Aquinas

Thus from the four preceding articles, the definition of law may be gathered; and it is nothing else than an ordinance of reason for the common good, made by him who has care of the community, and promulgated.

For more, see –
newadvent.org/summa/209000.htm

[Disciple_of_light]

@dan020350

When should we not obey the law?

We should not obey when the law of man conflicts with the law of our hearts

.

[kesh]

Humans are not conditional, law is death.

[aspacia]

@dan020350

a question imposed by my philosophy of law class for your observation, because I love philosophy!

Why should we obey the law? When should we not obey the law?
Certainity if we assume the higher authority is natural laws, moral obligation, the rule of law imposed by civil societies would be ignorable.

Since, we are cowards we ought to obey the law, as long as we don’t caught.

Depends on the law? Stopping at a red light? Massacring certain minorities?

[aspacia]

@tfdmissmatch

Religiously, that is, from a Christian perspective, we should obey the law because God has ordained the government to reward those who do good and punish the evildoers. Christians are not to obey the law only when adhering to the law would violate a higher law imposed by God himself; for instance, a law which would require one to convert to Islam or any other religion would be sinful.

Is that why they burned people at the stake for being heretics?

There are no such things as natural laws as they pertain to rule of law. Naturally, there are only prescriptions of the way things should be; for example, a mother should do her best to raise her offspring to maturity or self-reliance and sustainability. However, this is obviously not always the case. As a result, one can conclude without hesitation that there are no natural laws since humans have a free will that is capable of violating Nature’s prescriptions.

And you know what Nature prescribes?

As a matter of practicality, obeying the law is not a luxury most can afford to do without. We should obey the law on most occasions simply because it benefits us to do so. Disobedience of the law will incur hurt and punishment. We can therefore conclude that obedience to the law is nearly always beneficial, and that, with few exceptions.

We have a a person elected president. He calls for implementing 9066 again (incarceration of a potentially threatening ethnic group) do we obey the law?

[aspacia]

@shinton

However, if I don’t wear my seat belt, for example, I fail to see how that could harm someone else–I mean, I suppose my body COULD fly out of the car and mess up someone’s paint job, but that seems like a law designed more to protect me from me.

If you are not wearing a seat belt, are injured, and have limited or no health insurance: 1. you injuries will probably be greater than if you wore a seat belt 2. and the hospital will be legally obliged to pay for your possible massive injuries. If the injuries are permanent, Cha ching, the taxpayer has to pay for your disablity.

Is the light going on?

[aspacia]

@tentative

As Imp suggests, laws require enforcement, but ultimately laws require the acquiessence of those governed - unless those laws are not laws made, but dictates established by raw power.

Lol, yes, and laws are repealed if they do not work and are not conducive to the current social climate (i.e. 18th amendment? Prohibition) and the Depression was on. Rather than have a full-scale revolution, the government decided, give them booze to pacify them.

Also, how man obey the drug laws, the driving laws, etc. How many obeyed the abortion laws?

Most do tend to obey, but others often do not.

How many of us really obey all the laws? Not me.

[Mucius_Scevola]

What makes a law, law ?

Its universality.

What gives universality to a statement ?

When a statement is necessarily true, then we say it is universally valid.

On what basis are some statements necessarily true ?

Judgements based on distinct concepts which operate by way of logical inference are deducted with apodictical certainty.

Really ?

Yes, of course.

Thanks.

You’re welcome.

[aspacia]

@Disciple of light

@dan020350

When should we not obey the law?

We should not obey when the law of man conflicts with the law of our hearts

.

Please do not misunderstand the following, but this is exactly what many of the religious claim. God’s law, what we believe, supercedes human law.

On certain counts, I tend to agree with this, but have a major problem with many religious laws.

[my_real_name]

@aspacia

@Disciple of light

@dan020350

When should we not obey the law?

We should not obey when the law of man conflicts with the law of our hearts

.

Please do not misunderstand the following, but this is exactly what many of the religious claim. God’s law, what we believe, supercedes human law.

On certain counts, I tend to agree with this, but have a major problem with many religious laws.

But religious laws (like Torah) bind only those under that religion, while natural law (which we religious freaks more often than not profess) binds all with man’s moral nature. But you know this. Civil law is supposed to advocate and support natural law – as I went into elsewhere…

It wasn’t clear what you meant by “human law”, so I mentioned both possibilities.

[aspacia]

@my real name

@aspacia

@Disciple of light

@dan020350

When should we not obey the law?

We should not obey when the law of man conflicts with the law of our hearts

Please do not misunderstand the following, but this is exactly what many of the religious claim. God’s law, what we believe, supercedes human law.

On certain counts, I tend to agree with this, but have a major problem with many religious laws.

So do I.

But religious laws (like Torah) bind only those under that religion, while natural law (which we religious freaks more often than not profess) binds all with man’s moral nature. But you know this. Civil law is supposed to advocate and support natural law – as I went into elsewhere…

Hum, don’t you find natural law brutal? I must have missed or misunderstood your other claim. Sorry.

It wasn’t clear what you meant by “human law”, so I mentioned both possibilities.

Chuckle, all countries have “human law” but most claim their laws are given to them by God. However, many in the West try to distance themselves from such claims under the guise of secular.

LOL, if we are so secular why the stink regarding homosexual marraige. Such hypocrisy.

Aren’t all scriptures written by humans, thus are prone to error.

I hope this make sense?

[Justly]

@Disciple of light

@dan020350

When should we not obey the law?

We should not obey when the law of man conflicts with the law of our hearts

.

==========
There are 2 laws: natural laws and man made laws. Examples of a natural law, your bladder is full, or your rectal vault is full, so you must empty your bladder and your rectum or you know what happens. Your stomach growls, so you put food in your stomach. Example of a man made law, pay your taxes, this man made law conflicts with the law of my heart but I have to obey or face consequences. So one law that is not obeyed is this: during a shopping trip to the mall, a father takes his daughter to men’s only restroom or a mother takes his son to the ladies only restroom. I am sure there are other laws that should not be obeyed.