What would it take for this to lift a man?

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What would it take for this to lift a man?

Hi, as an inventor i am interested to know what it would take to make one of these ideas lift someone into the air? Lets imagine that it is made of graphene covered carbonado mesh frame, such that it is very light. As for power, lets use a rotory engine e.g. As from the Mazda rx7 ~ because they are small and light + very powerful. Except it will be made from carbonado sphere’s surrounding the piston chamber, which would be as if dropped down into the spheres like a cup.
The entire weight would be majoritively that of fuel, a driver/rider, then the lightwieght vehicle.

Is this plausible?

Dragonfly simulation; BionicOpter of Festo at the ACHEMA Press Preview Achema_2015

festo.com/net/nl-be_be/Suppo … ticle.aspx

Bird simulation;
SmartBird – Bird flight deciphered

festo.com/cms/en_corp/11369.htm

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Ummm… No.

You cannot get a wingspan that small to lift a man.

Graphine is a super conductor, highly efficient only when it is in compact, single atomic layers. There simply isn’t a cost effective way to collect that much carbonado. Its not even known if its native to earth, or comes from a meteorite that struck Pangea… and furthermore, is a silly expensive substance to pick, and has no especially important properties to it for lifting a man.

Your choice of engines suck too.

Your engine… its not so much it’s weight to power, like with propeller-fixed wing.

Your trying to go small in aspect, but the aspect effects the entirety. So the entirety holds play holistically in every aspect.

Foucault’s Pendulum, Paratrooper in a Parachute, Spider on a Gossemer.

Its long and slinder, with a compact center of gravity, able to take the woof and warp of the forces against it for movement, and exploit the slightest surge of force against it to multiply its dynamic momentum.

So… What if we made a engine very small, but it’s fuel source built into a H-Harness capable of holding a man? A engine small enough to fit on a T-10 Delta reserve parachute?

This is a H Harness with the reserve chute:

The reserve chute in front, main chute in back, all attached to the H Harness, person inside

H Harness is the lightest, minimalist platform for lifting a man for a extended period of time in air. Front reserve chute is expendable.

Now, we have a sport called power paragliding. The engine is rear mounted, with the propeller:

Propeller is often made of wood, with a simple, light engine attached, nothing of the caliber your talking about. Propeller is often fiberglass or wood. Simple to make.

Parachutes vary, but you can use stock surplus military parachutes, and modify cells in the parachute to allow airflow.

Now… you want a dainty engine to lift a man, devices designed to operate within Bernoulli’s Principles of flight.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli’s_principle

How you get a heavy ass man in the air using less capacity to grab air via the engine is to substantially offset the static deferentials of it’s none powered elements, so they exploit scalar movement.

An example being, say I had a open parachute open, hooked up to me, but it was flat on the ground, away from the wind. If I picked the bottom up, and flicked it, parachute would open, and the chute could catch the scalar wind, and I may very well find myself gliding (or being ruthlessly dragged downhill to my death).

A very minor movement, a flick of my arms.

A parachute has guiding risers, the H Harness has 4, two front, two rear, coming off the shoulders:

Its the four lighter green cords coming off the top, with pieces of 550 Cord still attached (550 cord is a expensive, high tensil military string that is also marketed to the public).

The idea of maneuvering a parachute via the risers is equal to how sailing ships used to egg the currents, sail would be directed towards wind, and if not hitting directly to thevrear of ship, energy would be pushed down, and ship would Bob at a angle, while steering into the water, forcing it foreword.

A parachuter pulls on the riser, and that part is pushed down along the circumference of the parachute, shooting air out the opposite direction, acting like a thruster. However, the parachute falls faster as a result, as it has less air trapped beneath it, making for a more painful, if not hazardous landing.

If you have a small engine mounted in front of the H Harness, and decide to have the rear parachute back mounted, or your tiny as fuck device in the rear, throwing the parachute up, its all unlikely to work. However, if we know it is all about getting the chute up in the air, catching a current and taking off, then you may be able to make some compromises.

  1. Your tiny wings pump helium or explosive hydrogen into a fat ring around the chute, within flexible piping. Basically a mini Zeppelin. Lame, but can be done.

Attennas coming off the back of the H Harness expands the parachute, and using reflexive algorithms, continuously adapts the parachutes front and center to gain maximum air resistence, and man eventually putters off if enough wind comes along. Your little birds power the movement of the long antenna via servos. This could be done, especially for a little woman on a very hot day, as heat rises.

Third possibility is the gossamer-pendulum effect. Using hidden forces usually not considered, maximizing the weak and strong nuclear forces… long, skinny tublers of nano-fibers, comprising of carbon nanotubes with carcon buckeyballs as joins and ampliphiers. The parachute could be powered by simple seismic minutia, like sound even, how sensitive it would be. Can’t be built yet, stupid expensive and low industrial yield of both kinds of nanotubes to laboratories.

Or, just use a normal propeller, and a normal parasailing propeller, and have fun.

The engine design, if front mounted, can exploit Foucault’s pendulem… think of a doughnut shape, fueled by its own crankshaft in a downward motion, downward and upward tubes along the front H Harness, up to the parachute, to the top if necessary. Air cooled on the way up, energized in the canopy via chemical reaction to air and sun, and dipped back into the doughnut engine. Possible static electricity possibilities here too.

Bernoulli’s principles significantly limit the effective use of very small devices. Not theoretically impossible for a very small ramjet. Normal ramjets only operate at very high speeds. Fastest I’ve ever gone is a 130 knots. But there might be smaller ranges your device could exploit to get minimum thrust to get a chute up without weird tricks.

How normal people do it:

She’s a lady… (your propellers on that tiny dragonfly would be well passing the sound barrier, far faster than your carbons could take, to lift her petite ass this high. More likely to catch her on fire or tunnel through her, and break every window in a several mile area around the failed liftoff resulting in the worst suicide ever recorded in history).

From the authority of a former arctic paratrooper who grew up on Beale Air Force Base, California and knew SR-71 Blackbird pilots.

Now skynet has yet another reason to hunt my ass down.

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… an extreme diet and probably the amputation of legs.

… for all of the reasons that TF stated.

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Thanks for the very informative reply.

What i am actually looking for in terms of my invention is; what speed and lift is required to lift a man in terms of wing aerofoil shape alone. I.e. Without thrust momentum. So like how helicopters have blades which are wings but the wings are twisted which gives it thrust momentum.

More specifically i am looking at a mass of small wings. …so lots of dragonflies. This isn’t my invention but it would help me see if it would work. Is it just a matter of wing surface area [=?] X speed [=?] to lift a man.

I think my query could be answered by asking; how many dragonflies would it take to lift a man?

I read somewhere that the flapping of the wings in bird-flight, does nothing, except move the wings back to a position they can push through the air on the next stroke. Thus i am assuming we can remove the up/down motion.

btw, there is already a manufacturer of black diamond [carbonado], and artificial diamond can already be made into glass like sheets, and is used for scratchless covers on mobile phones.
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What would it take for me to fall asleep?

The propeller depends on the man, plus engine… his weight is a factor. I vary between 240 and 250 pounds. I would need a more powerful propeller with larger surface area… Not necessarily longer, just more… most propellers are binary, but some are three bladed. Russian helicopters have six or eight propellers to drag their heavy bodies around.

You will need to look info:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propeller_speed_reduction_unit

A propeller will list its reduction, such as 2.87, for a 185cc motor. The engine RPMs will not match up to the propellers, especially with a Mazda engine of all things. (Fly me to the moon…)

The propeller will be rated by a engineer, who will more than likely just be some guy paid by a former paratrooper who designed his own kit in a shop and needs a engineer to approve his plans for business insurance reasons. Its complete trial and error, you try every design to see if your fatass takes off and flies. You start with the rotary reduction, and then carve your blades. Then you eat grass. Then try another set of blades. Once you find the size you want, you can mold a fiberstock propeller if you care to to make it look spiffy. There is a reason most propellers are wood… its not NASA scientist doing this.

There are lists on the net, weight listed sometimes, sometimes only in packaging details.

As to just having a shitload above you, bad idea. Its not like how drunk guys can sit in a lawn chair and tie balloons to the chair till they drift buzzed over Idaho, sending police and ambulances chasing them across the state.

The dragonfly strung up above another dragonfly effects the air distribution of the one above it, besides it, below it. The patterns of flocks in flight is not random. They fly so they don’t steal the air of the bird next to them, causing birds to fall on one another, or from the flock all together. Its not fun as a paratrooper to have your chute suddenly collapse above you, and you find yourself running on the surface of the chute below that is “stealing your air”.

The actual distribution of a mass parachute drop is carefully spaces and timed, to prevent thus:

Really easy to end up entangled or on top another’s chute, and to get off it, you gotta jump off it, but jumping off it plunges you under him, and you steal his air, and he is running scared shirtless off your chute to jump… and it repeats till paralysis and/or death.

Add to this your idea of X number of dragonflies lifting need to be tethered… By what? String? The center of gravity of the man below will send them crashing together above, bouncing all over the place every time he moves. There is no mention of shock absorbers in tour plan. Might work if each are attached and spaced along a fixed, study pipe, but the pipe itself increases the weight, and needs for more dragonflies.

The UAV I built in 2006 cost nearly a thousand dollars, and could barely lift a camera, battery, and attenna. Today, the preferred route is a quad propeller chassis with camera underneath… eBay thinks they can lift books and such.

If we had the known manufacturers assumptions of their lift capacity, we could do a safe distance assumption on a fixed, known weight pipe and do the overall calculation. If you call up the manufacture, and say you have a lawn chair, lots of 550 cord, and lots and lots of money, and just need to know how many are needed to lift weight X, the company engineer will curse you out, for these reasons and more, and tell you your not getting any dragonflies, no matter how many you buy.

Shit, just trying to slave all those remote controls together… the FCC allows for a very limited broadwidth for these remote controls, most will be getting identical signals instead of unique signals, and how you would know to manage them competently is beyond me. My geometry for moving a hypothetical wedge of UAVs wouldn’t apply here. The NAVY’s ability to coordinate submarines underwater mathematically And by sensors is nearly nonexistent (remember the sub’s on the deep water horizon spill in the gulf of mexico? They had to go to Cameron (director of Avatar and the Titanic) for ideas because nuclear submarine captains couldn’t figure out his to have two sub’s next to one another feet above.

You want a swarm of bugs, lifting a mans ass up in the air, in a big cloud above him strings attached. Hell no.

Quantity does not easily transform into a modular essence when a complex of qualities is considered. Our mind creates dualities… A is to B, so B is to A. E = MC2… so smart, aren’t we? No… its only once we try to build that we realize B is a whole lot of things, and A only refers to an aspect of B, under H conditions, and if these conditions change, B isn’t B anymore, even though a lot of other stuff looks like B at first impressions and in terms of inherited language.

Your dragonflies become a horrible ball of chaos above your head. Might get you up on mars, but not earth for long, if at all.

Please don’t do this. I fear for your life.

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I wanna hear about your training and your experiences as a paratrooper. Shirley you have some stories to tell.

As a fellow skydiver, you might like this:

aeternitatis.forumotion.com/t64- … e-of-death

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I had bronchitis, and was half unconscious most of airborne school, and kept waking up on the bus to and from the jumps with my face on the shoulder or once even in the crotch of a very small and petite blonde dietition attending some officer academy, think it was West Point. Its not even worth the high fives, cause I was so freaken out of it I didn’t know how lucky I was and kept apologizing.

So… um, your in the plane, then out of it, and then, if your very very luck, your PLF (parachute landing fall) works and you survive.

There is nothing that cool about midair collisions, lines twisted up, finding yourself over trees, landing in a swamp, or frozen Alaskan fields improperly maintained, where bushes were hastily chopped down leaving foot long spikes sticking out of the ice inches from where you land. Or guys getting stuck in the jump door, getting kicked out… but you land because of them a half mile away, even though it was mere seconds of a delay. Or guys landing unconscious and getting dragged across ice for minutes as everyone struggles to stand up, look around, and see a body getting dragged by a parachute going off into the wilderness.

Did I mention the moose? Or not being allowed to put snowshoes on for a half hour after a jump for tactical efficiency, disappearing into a snowdrift under all that weight?

Nothing cool about it. No stories. Just a constant stream of fuck ups, and alot of regrets and nightmares. My biggest regret is not remembering her name. Second biggest is being there in the first place.

Ummm… Just checked over the first and last paragraphs of that story. I had a friend in Force Recon in Hawaii, and he used to do “Ocean Jumps”, but it was without parachutes. Due to altitude compression, you can’t fly above 70 meters, jump out at 40 meters, and dive I think it was, now more than 30 to scuba, or you die.

High altitude jumps can be preformed into water, but you lose your chute in the process (best of luck doggy paddling with that on) and have to more or less stick to just under the surface. They make a big show of it on TV, dropping guys high altitude into the ocean, but not a whole lot you can actually do out there. Fight a submarine with a harpoon? Yarrrr. The flight would be detected, and security would be placed on high alert. Best way into the water is just jumping off the backside without a chute. Lower radar profile.

Hell, landing in the water with a chute sucks… you gotta lie there in the water, upside down or right side up, trying to trace your way out along the seams of the chute itself. Or like in the military, release your chute and freefall the rest of the way in… but knowing my luck the chute would land on me, dragging my butt down.

Its a waste of money. Jumping without intention of preparing for combat is too. I don’t see the point of non-veterans doing it. Its not about thrills, but the capacity to insert yourself into a region by a unconventional manner, being specialized so as to take over a hostile dominion of life and turn it into your own special reserve, like a seraphim. Same goes for the ice in the arctic. Or the deserts in Mohavi, Kuwait, and Iraq. Or my civilian play in the little jungle mountains in Hawaii, rebuilding my leg.

None of it was cool, manly or heroic. Serious swamp ass arises with the associated inflammation. Unless you can see what is sacred, and valid, and comforting in a rucksack and a horizon, such things are terrible and brutal. I don’t do it for fun. I do it because a part knows it is necessary, in the same way a archer practices even long after service because he knows it is, or a calvary man still rides into his old age. I hate it actually in part.

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Ever get a malfunction, have to cut away and pull the reserve? Or are these chutes without reserves?

No, what happened? Let me guess, the parachute wasn’t big enough to carry him and he crashed and burned, or he jumped too late and missed the landing zone by a mile?

There is absolutely something cool about it; you made it through.

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I added more to that post… but no. Continuing on out of grim determination isn’t cool. Its only cool is you haven’t done it, sitting at home fantasizing. But doing it… then again, and again… and years later your still alone, very alone, and your doing it. You got too many scars and you just don’t know where you are at times, or why, full of a blur of memories and confused motives blending into one another and not making much sense when you tell yourself… not fucking cool.

I am happy your father liked it, and could afford to waste that kind of money. I can’t view stuff like this as a sport, or charismatically. Its something driving you farther and farther, into a impossible darkness ecliping some monolith, an idea, where men just aren’t meant to be and you don’t quite know why in particular your there. Something about necessity, bettering yourself. It just kills the joy in the face and in the soul.

The jump is only a single aspect of the airborne experience. Its the novelty and riggor of behind the lines light infantry movements and tactics, against far superior force and firepower. The jump is easy, a guy tied to a chair unconscious could make it. Its everything afterwards.

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Yeah I wouldn’t imagine you would under your circumstances.

Have you ever done a free-fall jump, or just static line?

Two different animals here. 45 seconds of free-fall from 13,000 ft. at 120 mph is quite the experience. It’s the most fun you can have with your pants on. You really should try it if you haven’t. You might even be able to do it solo the first time rather than tandem because of your military experience… though I don’t know what the laws are where you’re at.

So you’ve jumped into a real combat situation, or just combat training?

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I’m not aware anyone my generation has jumped in a real combat situation. I can’t remember the unit, think 82nd Airborne (some battalion) technically qualified for a combat jump in Iraq, but the ground was heavily cordoned off, with police tape around it. So… they have combat wings, but everyone knows its bullshit.

What was your other question…
No… I haven’t done that high of a jump, don’t see the point. Not to say I couldn’t, I’ve done some freefall training down at Fort Benning with some friends when trying out for the Rangers (no, I didn’t become a Ranger, I suck), we got to jump around for a bit, as they are real nice to Ranger candidates who show up. I can’t remember anymore the name of that school, its separate from Airborne School completely, meant for Special Forces. A lot of guys sent down to Ranger School (not the same as trying out for the Rangers) are told to see if they can get fitted in for the course once there. I never gave a fuck about Ranger School after a few months after getting to my unit, and avoided it. I was more interested in military strategy and invention from that point on.

What have I done since getting out? I’ve jumped out of a helicopter into the Ocean once with a buddy in Hawaii, and it wasn’t that high. I’ve also did some accidental bungee jumping two months ago. Rocks sliped , I was looking for petroglyphs along the Ohio River.

I’ve also road in a helicopter recently too, but that wasn’t a jump, it was repelling from a helicopter with a group I know from down state. I was all for it before I remembered I was afraid of heights, and was a total bitch upon exiting the helicopter. Imagine Mr. Bean trying to do it. Didn’t help it was moving the whole time. Most pointless exercise ever, and I had no helmet provided, and got mud in my shoe, and my left eye was teary from wibd abrasion. When you do air assault in the military, you have goggles and helmets, and boots. Needless to say it ain’t happening again.

I am planning on building my custom designed powered parachute, obviously know a little about it. Its how I ended up in a helicopter in the first place. I want to research the possibility of adapting it to basic troop movement and MOUT situations, such as flying off at night from a rooftop. I need to get total cost under $2000, not including $300 night vision to research the complexity of a night movement.

When I was a kid, I lived on a sirforce base, the pilots would pilot private planes on the side. They used to put me in the back and try to scare me. I’m okay with falling, just its unnerving as hell to be in front of a door and leaving. I like the idea of just… zoop, up in the air, glide around, and then a very, very soft friendly landing in a grassy sod field that is more comfortable than your bed.

I just don’t know if a powered parachute can do consistent building to building jumps, or the constraints of a team or squad formations movements and overwatch. My knee isn’t in the best shape, so no real craziness. Just jumping off buildings at nights.

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Closer, the propellers all look 4 feet long. Your seeking a reduction of span, that flaps, not spins. You would go for 12 spokes as a starter, not six, and branch out several times before hitting outer wing. Maybe even a second tier offset. Sheer force of the dragonfly wings could snap many, so redundancy needs built in, and a way to shut off branches if you get off tilter.

Twin VTOL, its vertical like my cage idea for my parachute, but the guy can just fall out and easily pull his groin on a sharp degree turn, when you push to compensate. Has to be very limited in range, due to fuel and motor requirements.

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So… two 450 Watt Electric Motors can life roughly 12 5 pounds.

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Wow thanks for the replies, what i was thinking of is this… I don’t have the funds or knowledge to take the idea forwards, i just get these weird ideas from time to time lol.

the propeller in front of the ‘wing-mesh’ as I call it, is to provide air density, as well as drive ~ or maybe I would have a small turbo for that and separate propellers for drive e.g. at the back of the vehicle. the idea is to be able to left-off VTOL without too much thrust momentum. otherwise it would be pointless and you may as well have helicopter like craft as you shown.

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I made a mistake.

In order to operate a ever increasing number of wings in a confined set area, especially if they are being sheered off setting the whole thing off balanced, the interface with have to be diadatic and intuitive, and the controls to respond to this complexity much fewer yet more intuitively emersive and effective than what we currently use to fly helicopters (a stick and feet bars).

The problem ultimately rests on how fastly we can process complex data. We have a big brain, but birds can send a much larger amount of useful information to various aspects of the mind in any given second than we can. They evolved for pack flying and scanning, our primate minds didn’t. Their nervous system is directly tied into their frame and senses, as a pilot, humans are not.

So the design of merely reducing the length of the propellers and compensating by likewise increasing the number of dragonfly wings is inappropriate.

A entirely new sensory mechanism of flight will have to be developed, and the flight controls will have to be reactive to them, and that interaction simple enough for us to derive simple sensory data from it and send a cascade of signals that can right the balance.

Pilots are trained in small aircraft to fight against gravity and air resistance/currents… or in space to maintain orbital trajectory so they don’t fall back in while sailing… by time and by signals/computers. Its why tlthe Soviet Union built that Hugh clock in Ukraine for the Mir Space Station.

googlesightseeing.com/2006/06/giant-cogs/

Likewise, the mass confusion of so many servos operating at once, the redundant energy drain. Its counter productive.

The Electro-Magnetic Force might do the trick. We already exploit it in our cellular array, have enough signalling and control functions for droids and aircraft GPS, not to mention cell phone chatter. The breakdown of the force is mutually effective to the other.

I recall long ago being fascinated by the idea of Mono-Magnetic Poles (don’t exist), you have your basic polar magnets… on your fridge. If you of four magnets of equal intensity lined up in a cross, they make for a more compact field than one set up with just two. With just three, at right angles, it causes a sharp reduction of the field at right angles, but not at 180°. I can’t recall the name of this kind of field, it might come to me.

[IMG]https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCbt7mcAxB_gVz25fdjsspOeM-GSpyLNmvzuVdk8JJ_ZtAGoz1gw[IMG]

If we use the electrical circuits in the whole craft be set up for as a series of electromagnetic generators, we wouldn’t need servos… the force itself can operate off of prime-polymers, such as the 2 off, 1 on magnetic spin. This can signal and position the movements of a individual wing, and each wing is slaved to the electromagnetic field of the whole system.

The pilot would have to be aware of velocity, altitude, and wind resistance like a normal pilot would, but would also need to be aware of spectral-light distributions representing the area of electromagnetic field represented over a planosphere (the aircraft inertia relative to its frame and gryoscope/altitude)

This spectrographic convergence would sit over and merge with a imaginary number sequencing for radio transmission to a control tower/computer to make sense of it:

A very simplified idea of merging a planosphere with imaginary numbers, alongside of spectral colors indicating overall craft’s electromagnetic balance so the pilot could offer command and control (I didn’t make this)

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_number

This will give primates the equal edge in processing complex data like birds. A completely new system of piloting and sensory recognition. Completely scrapping the last hundred years of motor assumptions, turning the entire craft into a nebulas engine able to sense itself and its overall functions. A sensory array that is precise, and lights up onscreen like the Aurora Borealis. Its much easier for the mind to make sense of such data and control such a complex system to minute details, fast enough for it to dependably fly.

You are a absolute genius. Thanks for figuring this out!

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We can use this idea for designing new kinds of drills for deep earth digging as well. A way to keep track of a thousand drill bits floating in a mix, churning raw rubble through them and being them, never needing to stop or cool down… irregular bits up front with new bits being tossed into a cloud… pieces too small being suck back with the waste. Continuously operating drill bits.

We be able to find Hugh quantities of rare earth minerals, including precious metals this way, instead of using blasting and monolithic drills crafted at absurdly expensive rates. No need for a giant drill head. You can have a thousand. At least, this can spherically (as opposed to a planosphere) do the command and control functions.

The drill bits will have to act as gears at the same time… if a piece is knocked backwards by a rock to gike way, it has to fall within a range of possible secondary gear functions in the rear… before being worked elsewhere around the drill nebulosity, always grinding and chewing. The actual power coming from the turning of the rear most drill bits. They turn, the rest turn. When a drill bit breaks, it needs to be along planned geometric weaknesses in the bit to its parts fall into the overall superstructure of the drill bits acting in unison. The overall organism needs to be able to operate with a mix balance of cog bits, but not all possibilities all at once. Rear load fresh pieces, they move to front. Pillars of drill bits mutually supporting themselves on their cog sides, while their drill bit parts always tear the rock up and move foreword. Bits always fall into a secondary or trinary position, then move foreword again, or gets sucked out to the rear with the waste.

I think alot can be done with this new way of thinking, ordering chaos in completely new ways.