More civilized than third world countries. Compared to them, we virtually have no problems.
I fail to see the relevance of that statement. Helping people does not automatically come from a religious standpoint. One can be considerate and helpful without religion.
No!
too bad for them.
the civilized united states has decreed that the rest of the world will be civilized just like us.
-Imp
Ha! Well when your biggest problems change from which kind of cheese should I buy from the supermarket to fearing that you’ll have enough food to live, get back to me.
Show me exactly where in the constitution it says “we should go to war to civilize third world countries against their will.” Regardless if it’s written in our consitution, we can still lend a helping hand. Hell, helping other countries out of our own will would cost a hell of a lot less than going to war with them. Now, being a Republican, I know that’s your number one priority.
Too bad for them?! Have you no consideration for other people’s cultures or feelings? I fail to see how letting them live their lives the way they want negatively affects us in anyway. Why is that America feels the need to force our culture on other countries?
it is a question of defense
did you object when we forced our culture on germany and japan?
I didn’t think so
-Imp
If it’s so bad, shouldn’t we focus on our own problems before dealing with other countries?
Oh yeah because Iraq poses such a threat. I agree that getting Sadam out of power was an excellent and necessary move but now there’s no point in being there.
Oh give me a break. So the government should never do anything to go out of their way to help someone else?!
Iraq, as a country, poses absolutely no threat to us. We never forced our culture on those countries and told them, this is how you’re going to run your country from now on. They we’re killing innocent people, we as a country stepped in, and stopped them from doing so. We went out of our way, and helped the less fortunate and helpless victims.
Sp17,
Give up.
Talking to Imp is a complete waste of time.
Your intuition is right – I’d trust that a lot more than the opinion of some jaded old geezer.
I’ve never met someone so loyal to one party. Haha, old geezer? I presumed he must be older just because he’s a Republican. How old is this guy?
How old is he? lol He’s old enough to be trapped. The thing you have to realize is that this is beyond parties.
Guess what Clinton blew up the day of the Lewinski production…
It’s all the same shit.
we went out of our way to kill our percieved enemies. that’s it.
-Imp
thank you for your continued personal attacks.
-Imp
Have you ever read regarding the barbarity that occurs in many of these lands. Again, my morality differs from yours, or another morality and is not an objective view.
Stonings, genital mutilation, rape, beheadings, maimings, impalement, starvation while the leaders live in luxury and have a strong, well-fed military.
Of course, this is all the Imperial West’s fault according to you. Geez, these customs are thousands of years old and started long there was any imperial west.
aspacia
Imp,
I give up. Coming from a mostly liberal standpoint, we are never going to come to an agreement. Arguing about politics is pointless, especially with someone you disagree with.
aspacia,
Life in Iraq is now worse than it was before the war.
“Annan agreed that the average Iraqi’s life is worse now than it was under Saddam Hussein and called the situation in the country ‘extremely dangerous.’”
Yeah, we did a hell of a job, didn’t we?
I agree, that morally Iraq may not be headed in the right path. And I have no problem with us trying to fix that problem. But that was not the intentions of the U.S. government (who knows what it was?!). We went over their with the wrong intentions and made the situation even worse for civilians.
Bush wanted to oust Saddam, who is indeed a bad guy, and soon to be deceased bad guy. All that is going on at the moment is another power grab stemming from both the Shia and Sunnis. The Shia will probably win, and ally themselves with Iran. What a fucking mess.
aspacia 
what exactly was so one sided about the content of my posts? did i say anything that was incorrect besides the fact that i didnt know the speech was wc? i dont think so, but thank you very much for your very polite suggestion.
what exactly are those principles of islam? does the principle say something like “anyone who doesnt worship muhommed must die, no matter how good they are or what theyve done?” is that really what it says?
what are these “certain circumstances”? the actual definition of the word ‘jihad’ is not ‘holy war’ but ‘something that helps all of islam’ like a bake sale or raising oil prices. maybe self-proclaimed jihadists are actually trying to help islam in some way, since that is the definition of the word.
a jihad is not just some random war that should always be going on that is described in the koran as the duty to murder all non muslims. its something that has to help muslims, sometimes war appears to be needed.
lots of muslims in indonesia, pakistan and saudi arabia are being messed up by leaders that only exist thanks to the help of american money and weapons. those muslims have tried to stop this from happening through peaceful means, and they failed. now they are pissed.
how many people have been killed by suharto, the sauds and pervez musharaf, and how many have been killed by terrorists in response. sure its amazingly stupid to fight against violence with more violence (cough!), but viewing the conflict in this light is a little less one sided than hating a foreign religion and saying that it is as stupid as christianity can be interpreted as being, especially if the christian peasants live in a world like that of the 13th century for some reason.
why exactly do you think muslims hate america? page 152 of the koran says “hate random people, no reason neccesary”? i dont think so.
how about al jazeera? you know, before 9/11, america loved al-jazeera because we claimed it was a nice, unbiased source of information for the middle east. muslim propagandists hated it because they would have israeli generals and such giving interviews and it was unbiased. obviously those dastardly propagandists who hated al jazeera were quite wrong and evil.
now all of a sudden, america hates al-jazeera and muslims at least think its pretty good. what does that say to you?
when was the last time an arab that represented a terrorist organization spoke about his motives on american television? does that matter? should we hear anything from them? or should we just blindly hate them, kill their children, and not care about whether or not the reason why they want us dead is because we blindly hate them and kill their children?
like colin powell describing how anodized aluminum tubes couldnt be used for rockets (which he was allowed to have) because the anodized coating is so expensive, why would he just blow them up? and then it turns out that if they were going to be used for centrifuges, he would have to first mill off the expensive anodized coating? and then colin powell resigned? do you have quotes regarding why this is not obviously a horrible travesty?
pervez musharaf, the sauds, suharto: bad people, paid for by your taxes.
i sure hope they dont wrongly accuse you of terrorism. and i sure hope one of your old friends from pakistan isnt coincidentally affiliated with terrorism, that you know nothing about. now if they put you on trial and youre actually innocent, well in that case its not so bad because youll be found innocent and the inconvience you suffer while on trial is worth saving our country from terrorism. but what if youre innocent and dont receive a trial. welcome to the gulag.
describe this more specifically. page 152 of the koran says “hate random people for no reason”? or they are trying to accomplish something in a sadly ham handed, barbaric way? something that americans know nothing about, and if we did, we might think twice about solving the problem the way we are?
a lot of this stuff happens in saudi arabia right? where the government funds wahhabism? yeah, muslims hate the god forsaken sauds just as much as you do. the difference is that america keeps those sauds in power, and muslims do not! what other countries? is iran as bad as saudi arabia? what about pakistan, americas number two favorite country? honestly i dont know enough about pakistan except the war against terror there is much more violent than in saudi arabia. my explanation for this is that the saudi government funds the extreme religion which can easily brainwash medieval peasants. the same religion that you hate is paid for by your own taxes.
if saudi arabia is worse than iran regarding this religious horror, then we have an amazingly huge problem here. maybe its time for america to do something about our love for those rulers that you hate so much. like maybe stop directly causing them to exist. maybe the muslim world has known this for a long time, and is really getting angry about the fact that hillbilly americans are too ignorant to realize what our own horrifying government has relentlessly been doing (not just dubya).
do you have any reason to not believe this is the case? why do you think terrorists hate america? when was the last time a war was started by the leaders purely because the stupid book said so? never, not even the crusades.
define ‘we’
context of the quote?
-Imp
Hey FM,
Read the Qur’an for insight. Here is just one quote: Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle was asked, “What is the best deed?” He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next (in goodness)? He replied, “To participate in Jihad (religious fighting) in Allah’s Cause.” The questioner again asked, “What is the next (in goodness)?” He replied, “To perform Hajj (Pilgrim age to Mecca) 'Mubrur, (which is accepted by Allah and is performed with the intention of seeking Allah’s pleasure only and not to show off and without committing a sin and in accordance with the traditions of the Prophet).”