what's so good about a free market?

Why wouldn’t it be better to organize and plan everything and stop giving “private enterprise” the ability to make such terrible choices?

There’s loads of fallacious reasons. The trick is knowing why they’re fallacious.
This sounds like a rhetorical question, but then you wouldn’t start a thread with one - surely you’ve come across plenty of answers to this, not least on this forum. But ultimately, yes, it would be better to organise and plan everything.

It lets Merchants play the game of Economics their way.

Smears, have you met our government? You actually want an entity that is in debt trillions of dollars to be in charge of businesses?

Kriswest: Smears, have you met our government? You actually want an entity that is in debt trillions of dollars to be in charge of businesses?

K: This shows you fundamentally don’t understand government. Government role is not to make money or
to make a profit. government functions as a problem solving entity. Want protection from pirates for example,
that is the function of Government, to provide protection. This is not about profit but protecting and that
has nothing to do with debt. Now the argument has always been business is always more efficient than
government but that is simply not true. Social Security is a prime example. Since the 1950’s at least,
the congress has done study after study after study in an attempt to dump Social Security and every
single study has shown that the government is far more efficient in dealing with S.S. than any business.
Certain aspect of government I really, really, really don’t want businesses having anything to do with
and the defense of our country is one of these. It makes no sense to have business in charge
of the nation’s defense.


Uum peter, if business is not private then it is government controlled and I do understand government very well, I also know that the USA govt. Is horribly managed financially. It would be these same mismanagers that would control business and expenses… no thanks Peter. If they can’t handle the load they have, adding this massiveness would break everything.

Big part of that debt comes from bailing out failed private enterprise, and from a foreign policy that breaks our coffers in order to line those of…you guessed it…failed private enterprise.

What if the result of that is a massive accumulation of wealth on one end, and poverty everywhere else? Is that good for society as a whole?

I mean, I love the individual and all, because frankly, I am one. Also, I love money. I try and get more every single day.

But I feel like if I had all the money, and there was no one around, that it would kinda suck.

So certainly it can’t be the case that I ought to hoard everything up and alienate everyone else by viewing them as competition.

Kris, if the US govt is horribly managed financially, it’s probably because the people who take the most from our economy are all notorious tax evaders. Like G.E and Google and Apple and all those other companies that people seem to love so much. If those Americans weren’t mooching and paid their share back into the society that made them rich, then there’s be a lot less budget problems. The richest people in the country would love for you to believe that food assistance is what’s breaking the nation, but that’s just false.

Also, we are like, one of the wealthiest countries on Earth. So when you say we are poorly managed, who are you comparing us to?

While this may be true, it was not very fun to read. You coulda thrown me some kinda curve ball or something.

Kris, whether you understand Government or not, you don’t seem to understand debt.

Any private company will tell you that debt is good. Really. Debt is good if it is collectable. Racking up a debt means you have been given permission to maximise your means to bring in as much money as possible because you’re trusted to pay back the extra borrowed sums that you used (without which, you would be restricted only to that which you have now, regardless of what you will have in future). The more the debt, the more the trust in the institution - so actually it’s a measure of faith in the US government that they have such a huge debt…
I bet that comes as a surprise to you.
Obviously it’s easy to sell the idea that debt is bad to the electorate, because laymen only know debt as something that’s bad. You’ve been duped by right wing propaganda, who only use this twisted and deceptive argument solely as an excuse to REDUCE government (reducing debt amounts to reducing the manpower needed in government, so you can steadily sack more and more people and wait for private companies to fill the gap created, if they ever do - at an unacceptable cost to the human lives screwed over by such moves).

The extent to which publically run business pushes employees can often exceed how far private companies push their employees, especially when faced with what seems like relentless budget cuts, which in the eyes of employers should actually mean greater efficiency. Employees of public business work for a salary/wage, just as employees of private business, and thus they have the exact same financial incentive to do their job properly. There really is no reason for them to be less efficient. And it’s not like inefficiency doesn’t exist in the private sector… I really doubt this whole tale that it’s only the public sector that is “notoriously inefficient”. Private sector employees tend to be overloaded with work, restricting their ability to perform their job well - people complain about private sector service all the time, and rightly so. But they should be complaining to the employers who refuse to employ more staff, but the efficiency of “less wages” always takes precedence. If anything, public sector workers are (sometimes) better treated, which is probably where the idea that they are “less efficient” comes from, because more money is put into taking better care of workers and their working conditions. What a crime…

Additionally, private business only deals with profitable markets. Any necessary, but unprofitable market is left to the public sector to pick up the pieces. No wonder they aren’t as profitable. If all business was public, public business would actually have access to profitable markets. And then voila: a profitable public business - imagine that.

Hopefully this sheds some light on just how much bullshit privately owned media spins at you, to get you to buy the myth that “private is good and public is bad”. Private is only good for those who stand to gain from it: the rich. And by “the rich” I mean capitalists. If you are not a capitalist, you are losing real wealth daily. Why? Because it’s going to them. It’s only through inflation and the perpetual devaluing of produces and services that keep being improved upon that we don’t see the “number” that denotes our wealth decreasing. Some kind of career progression and series of pay rises can also mask this essential truth that must perpetuate in order for Capitalism to survive. But all the while, younger generations are born into poorer and poorer circumstances if they are not capitalist, only things look better on the surface because consumable shit is so much more awesome than it was.

Balls are always curved - they are spherical.
How was that?

As bad as my jokes are, I treat this topic with boring seriousness. Sorry, you’ll just have to deal with it. But I encourage you, and everyone to read what I say anyway.

The fact that a debt is collectable has nothing to do with whether debt is good or bad, for the person who has actualy taken on the debt, and not the person who has just loaned out the money he already has.

It’s the other way around; you have it backwards: The more someone trusts you, the more debt you can take on. But if you have loads of debt, people start to trust you less. And that’s what has happened with the US; their credit rating being an example of it. In that sense, debt is a bad thing.


The truth is that whether or not any given debt is a good thing depends on factors like the interest rate, how it is compounded, the term, the leverage, the collateral, the percentage of your assets, etc. But if you just like bold, sweeping, general, and wrong answers----then sure, have fun…

Von you should get an award for point misser of the year.

Or the one for nailing every point I was responding to… I’ll try to get around to talkng about free markets some time for ya.

Sil, I do know that. I owned a successful business, managed others. I guess I probably put more emphasis on the deplorable mismanagement part of our govt. I was one of the few here that understood why we borrowed money from China while most declared it wrong.
Few holding the strings understand business, they understand getting their way.
Yes debt is good, but, wasted debt is not. Do you honestly think the govt is really that good and capable? Take a look at my past posts btw, I am not a fan of media, they tend to cause more issues.
Debt must be managed to be positive or it become a noose. A govt is more susceptible to that noose.

He’s right, Von.

The fact that you don’t realise it is only testament to the accusation.
No need to get around to talking about free markets “some time”, there was a reason why I condoned u blocking me. I feel embarrassed for you that you haven’t been able to stick to your word, at least twice now…

Kris, I’m just concerned that you might be right wing. Statements like this only confirm my fears.

I do think that government can be more good and capable than private business. But let us not use the more right wing government in the world as the most representative example of what a government can be (government can even be democratic!). Private businesses are all Totalitarian dictatorships. Do we want to be run by them?

LOL Sil I am not right wing nor left. Both have good and bad. I don’t want a baker building my home. You know what keeps business owners in check, better education for consumers. I have watched mandatory classes become electives or removed totally. When I was a kid business ed or economics was a two semester mandatory class in high school. Where is it now?
Education used to be so much more now it is just passing tests where the answers are memorized. The concern is pushing bodies through the system, not educating them. If education is mandatory then it should actually be educational.

They’re free and they’re markets.

I think the underemployed/unemployed should be given a choice, food or shelter, they shouldn’t be given both, unless they agree to be sterilized.

Or alternatively, you could give them both for up to a year, in order to give them ample opportunity to reestablish themselves. If they can’t find work by then, if they want to continue to receiving benefits, they have to agree to be sterilized.