What's with this Jesus is God thing?

What are your thoughts about this whole Jesus is God thing? He never claimed to be. Maybe son of God, but arn’t we all?

Well, once a group of people decide to ‘think’ a certain thing, it doesn’t matter how it really is anymore.

What’s with the “Jesus is God” thing, is that it was a popular and indoctrinated idea, thus it is defended and preached, thus it spreads and does not die out.

I see. So in your mind, Jesus allowing other people to worship him and call him “God” is insufficient reason to believe that he considered himself God.

Do you believe that your mommy is your mommy?

They called him “lord”.

In Feudal times, for example, it was very common to call others lord or master if you were an adherent or fallower of that person, but they obviously were not calling him the all-mighty, infinite creator of the universe, etc.

I’m pretty sure Jesus did say that he was God… though admittedly I may not be able to find that exact wording (because Jesus had a habit of speaking in riddles), I’m sure I could find more than one instance where he said he was the Messiah, the Son of God, the Lamb of God, etc etc.

Jesus understood that God is where he is known. The people around him didn’t know him, Jesus did. That’s why he was ‘the’ son of God, one with God, at that point.
I think today he would have a lot of family.

Really Dan, which bible do you read?

The Jews understood Jesus claimed to be God
John 10:33
“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Jesus himself allowed himself to be called God
John 20:27-28
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Jesus allowed himself to be worshipped yet stated continually that we should worship no-one but God. Use a bit of logic and you’ll see where this leads.

Matthew 2:2
and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”

Matthew 2:11
On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

Luke 24:52
Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.

John 9:38
Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.

So, Jesus was the all-mighty force which created the universe, etc?

Why could he die?

Why could he get tired?

Why did he need to eat?

I’d call him a magician at best.
What’s up with your translation?

Look up the debate between Arius and Athanasius, it will explain why this situation persists, erroneously.

I’d like to add this to Ned Flander’s list:

Titus 2:13… the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ

As usual I honestly can’t be bothered answering your inane questions, and your opinion of Jesus means very little to me given the rest of your beliefs.

I merely interjected in this thread to correct some erroneous statements. By all means carry on with your usual inane banter based on a poor understanding of the bible.

What’s so inane about what I just said?

Dan~, try thinking of it this way. Jesus was God. God cannot be in the presence of sin because He would be corrupted by it. Jesus was a form of God, because Jesus was God.

God used Jesus’s human body as a filter for the sin that He was around, so that it would not corrupt Him. Thus, Jesus still acted like a human, and did human things like sleep and eat.

But there’s a big difference between being a prophet and being the creator of the universe.

Prophets also did miracles and were supposedly God’s mouth piece.

But aren’t some people here saying Jesus is literally God?

You made an erroneous statement that Jesus was referred to simply as Lord. When faced with evidence against your view, you simply bounced along undaunted and restated your view in the form of asking questions. I therefore see no evidence that you are actually listening to anything that anyone says and can find no reason to actually engage in discussion. Therefore, I find your approach and questions inane.

I disagree with you on this one. If God cannot be in the presence of evil, then how can he know it? Likewise, how can he know what we do wrong if he cannot be there when we do wrong?

Now what if Jesus was an imperfect carnation of God. That would seem to make more sense.

Dan, Jesus IS God. Literally. I’m not saying Jesus was a prophet, I’m saying he was another form of God.

AtoA, that’s actually a good argument, and believe me, it’s one I’ve thought about. I don’t have any answers for you. I know that’s not what I believe but at a certain point I really do have to say “God, you know the history of this much better than I do, and better than I ever will. At a certain point, I’m just gonna have to trust you.”

Hello Ned:

— The Jews understood Jesus claimed to be God
John 10:33
“We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
O- This is what the jews have said Jesus claimed. But what did Jesus claimed with his own lips? Here lies your confusion:
34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’[d]? 35If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
See my bold alterations: “I am God’s Son”. That is quite different that what the jews claimed he said and Jesus correctly points this out to them.

Jesus himself allowed himself to be called God
John 20:27-28
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
O- It is inconclusive what Thomas meant. He might have submitted himself to Jesus, his Lord, while also praising Yaweh, his God. He recognized perhaps, Jesus position in a hiearchy, as prophet, as son of God, but not as one and the same God, which he had no reason to believe from messianic prophecy. Of course, most christians jump at this and many other utterances, but still, Jesus has not said: “I am God”.

— Jesus allowed himself to be worshipped yet stated continually that we should worship no-one but God. Use a bit of logic and you’ll see where this leads.

Matthew 2:11
On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.
O- He is a baby here. Nothing he can allow or prevent. He is still making poop uncontrolably.

Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
O- Again, this is what others have said and they say: “Son of God” not “God”. The qualification is important.

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
O- “Worship” can be understood in many ways. It is a demonstration of love and devotion, not necessarly the declaration that what is the object of our love and devotion is God Himself. Jesus, as always, is symbol of God on earth.

Matthew 28:17
When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
O- Again, such worship is not a declaration or demonstration that Jesus is God and that God is Jesus, and even Paul in Hebrews 8 does not go as far as making that blasphemy, nor in 1 Corinthians 15:27-29. To Paul, as he explains to the athenians, Jesus was an appointed judge, not the Judge Himself. This is consistent with my comments above. Further the way that the Israelites, and perhaps the jews, understood “God” is not clear. Moses, God says, was like God to Pharaoh and Aron his prophet. This is metaphorical and should not be taken literally.

John 9:38
Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
O- This here, Ned is just irresponsible quotation. The context is very important. Taken as just this bit, you may hope that people will believe that the man saw Jesus as Yahweh, or “G-d”. Yet Jesus question to him was simply: “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”, which is again quite different from saying:“Do you believe in God?”, or Do you believe that I am God Himself?" Yes, Jesus perceived himself as special. In Luke he says that:
" In any case I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day- for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"
This does not equate with the position that Jesus said that he was God. Even when others say that he said such a thing, he corrects them rather than simply agreeing with them and qualifies the term “God” (he called them gods to whom the word of God came) and after even corrects what they think he said with what he indeed said which was far from being blasphemy. He who does the will of God is indeed His son.

Well done omar.

Concise, exact, and completely on task.

But, people wont believe Omar, even if he is correct.

Noone comes to ILP to learn and to change, they come to take a piss on eachother’s minds.