When Cash Fires Back

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/change … ve-in.html

When Cash Fires Back

What is “investment” ? What is that extra cash ? It all boils down to the fact that something “good”, something that is “nice” comes back to haunt us, to punish us. How is that ? You work (or corporation “works”) they make money, you make money and you end up having some “extra” cash left at the end of the month. Oh, how nice. Then maybe after a few months you end up having 10,000 dollars of extra cash hanging out in the bank, because you didn’t spend as much as you made, you made some profit, you simply got more cash then you needed. Oh, how nice. So now, you are ok, aren’t you ? You have some extra cash that you can maybe use to do something nice with.

And here is where the problems start. What do you want to do ? Normally you would want to do something appropriate with the amount of cash you have, but since our mind is a turd, a huge pile of crap, we decide to do something that is not “appropriate” with what we have: we become stupid, we want more, we make believe we have 100,000 dollars, so we decide to buy a McMansion with debts, we buy the 30,000 car instead of the 10,000 car and so on. And then what ? Well money can’t “simply stay put”, it “has to do something”, it has to be invested. You simply can’t have that money peacefully on your bank account just relaxing for any future needs to use, no it “has to work for you”, it has “to make a profit”, it has to be “invested”. And here is the second mistake: the idea that money automatically has to always be invested, has to make a magical return no matter what and so on.

But there are two problems with this: there are no longer any good investments to make because of market saturation, all sectors have been beaten to death, most good investments dependent on the 20th century technology have been done and finished. And second, by forcing a profit on money no matter what we create ever bigger debts someplace else, preferably government debts and so on. So the mistake is in the idea of “investment”: kill this idea, kill the idea of investment, don’t invest in anything, keep the cash on your bank account and that is all, don’t make it do anything, don’t make it work for you, it is all rip off.

Also, I was thinking of a language system in the mind where the symbol becomes the very mind that processes the other symbols, a self constructing mind and sequence of symbols, or the minds being processed by the sequence of symbols (upside down) the singularity achieved by thought, a multidimensional thought system creating a new organization of Mass Energy fooling information, etc.

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That last bit is interesting the first is pretty much true…the only thing i would wonder about is how having less circulation of cash due to cash sitting in bank accounts would affect things, or would some system be place-able to prevent stagnation?

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Nameta9, less than half of today’s investors are individual, private investors, and they seem to be wealthy enough to absorb any losses. Most investors are groups–retirement funds, charities, government agencies, cities, states, etc. These groups invest specifically to make a profit in order to meet future responsibilities. This is why the financial melt-down was so devastating. It’s why so many cities and states in the US are scrambling to cut services and raise taxes–it’s why companies want to cut back on retirement benefits and company contributions to employee health insurance.

Even if you keep your money in a bank account, you are, in effect, lending the bank your money–that’s why interest rates on savings accounts took such a dive after the melt-down. Put your money in a savings account and you’ll expect to earn some sort of return. Keeping your money in a coffee can under your bed is a better idea for not having it ‘work’ for anyone, but then, you’d have to have the script we now call money to put into that coffee can.

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The idea of investment is dead: it is not going to happen anymore, it is over, the end, finished, kaput, over, doomed. the idea is that money, say 10 dollars, is going to be put into “something” or “somehwere” and you are going to get 11 dollars. Now this idea is so obviously wrong that no one notices how wrong it is ! It is flawed and a logical error because:

  1. It expects 11 no matter what, no matter if it is impossible, no matter how hard it is to obtain, no matter what: so it forces a profit on money no matter what, and the only way to force a profit (an expected result before the endeavor, before the play out, before the forces have time to play themselves out and demonstrate whether there is a real effective and justified profit or not, just like cry babies that want 11 no matter what) so they force it to become 11. They cook the books, they just make believe that it became 11, they just force it to become 11, they just write 11 on a computer screen and magically they get a “profit”. This is make believe economics.

  2. To get a “real profit” either you exploit some novelty, like some application of technology increasing returns, or you find some cheap labor and sponge off paying workers as little as possible, or you invent new definitions (of money and profits) and financial instruments, all kinds of tricks, and fun and games and define profits into existence. This has been done and will continue to be done, the stock exchange and economics is a huge fake poker game with very little real necessities behind it, it is just a big game of ripoff and make believe, and the powers that be will keep on trying to play the game until it breaks. I think the game of technology and cheap labor creating profits is slowly ending: technology is over and finished with, all the technology that could bring profits has been achieved, this game is over, cheap labor is finishing too because worldwide salaries are all becoming the same, all between 300 and 700 dollars a month, etc.

Profit also is money that goes to where the money already is, it is the exact opposite of “effort and hard work” in that it worships the idea of free money, money increasing by simply not doing anything at all since the profits have been defined from the outset, the return established before you even play the game as in government bonds and Greek and Italian bonds giving 5 to 10 percent interest (and choking economies while forcing that profit), so those already well off having say 200,000 dollars buy these bonds and get 210,000 dollars after a year or so for not doing anything: the rich simply get richer, money flows to where it already is and out of the hands of workers and the lower class, etc.

Nice game profits and investments, but the hands giving out this free money (workers and the lower class) are running out of money to give to the rich, the game is over, the idea of investment must be killed.

Definition of profit : any mechanism that robs from the poor to give to the rich.

5

You never answered my post. Can you, or do you simply want to talk to yourself?

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He responds once in a blue moon.

At least what he says isn’t just absolutely ridiculous and damaging…

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Response: just keep it on your bank account, even if it returns nothing, or even if inflation eats the money, who cares, or keep it at home, kill the idea of investment, just leave the money alone, and kill the idea of getting a return, who cares if it doesn’t return, make money relax, make it take a long vacation and just sleep, if you got the money you are ok, you are already rich, who cares (or do you want more and more like a hog ?, of course inflation is another system to kill value and make money move, but anyways).

The search for “objectivity” is all an attempt to hide the fact that it all boils down to some arbitrary decision and interest of some individual that just expresses his will power, his desire to have it his way, his choice to do anything, “because I want it like this”, it is not based on anything at all no matter how hard the economists, politicians, philosophers you name it try to convince you of the contrary. So the corporations have trillions and don’t wan’t to “create jobs”, why ? Just because, because they want to keep it like hogs, for no other reason then their puny personal decision, and that is what makes people angry, because they know that there is nothing behind it all, only A wins and B loses, end of story, just because, just for a quirk, just because of a power relationship, for no deeper or objective reason (no matter how elaborate and complicated the excuses and theory set forth to justify it is, like “competition” and such).

Also if work is “productive” and “creates something” then it only last so long, after the accumulation of result and the product, that work is no longer needed: the more productive the job, the less it lasts, the more efficient that endeavor is, the more accumulated product is produced, and especially, the lesser real future work will be available: productive jobs and work kills ever more future jobs and work exactly because they are productive, accumulative, they really produce results, long lasting and concrete results.

But since most of such work can’t be created, then most jobs are just processes, rituals, repetitions of some puny crap and ritual and activities that are actually of “negative productivity”, that don’t produce, they just consume resources and mostly “destroy”, the more productive the real jobs are, the more you have to create negative productivity jobs that just dissipate time and resources, mostly to keep people busy so they just don’t kill each other off.

But there is a limit to how much negative productivity jobs can be created, so that is another reason why jobs are becoming obsolete, work will disappear in the future, there is no longer any real work to be performed, it is over, we are doomed, the end.

The more real productive, accumulating results jobs and ten times more negative productivity jobs must be created to compensate the huge accumulation of results by the Technological Economy. And most of these “negative productivity” jobs are fake office jobs, their real result is just to pass time (and office politics, fights, etc.), the “time passed” is the only real result achieved by most jobs, mostly as in punching the card at 9 and 5 (or not punching and making time pass for 13 hours instead of 8 ).

We need to build trillions of Skyscrapers all across the USA, and Rockets to Mars, and High Speed Trains all across the USA, and huge BUS transporation systems, and Free Salaries and Cheap Rents etc.

8

There is a good bit of pointlessness in much of the things we do vocationally, but it varies, and depends on the thing.

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Hey we should build a giant pyramid! Oh wait all this has been done before. I guess we forget the lessons learned. Or rather people just think some things help when they don’t…in other words humans don’t really know where their going, we walk but we’re on a small sphere and we can’t see what’s on the other side. Do we walk in circles…spheres? Yet time passes…walking in circles doesn’t always mean you get no where. What if it is an infinite circle?

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That is what makes an atheist and christian fundamentalist the same, they are both trying to hide the puny insignificance of man and his quirky will power and pain/pleasure circuits behind “objective” laws and rules and truths and religions and logic, science etc. but these laws are all false and wrong, man is insignificant no matter what, all puny quirks, who is less insignificant then who ? who resonates with the truth, the “objective truth” ? no one, there is no truth only quirks and fights and puny man.

The Instant Singularity is a thought production, symbols that process other symbols and mesh and mix with neural circuits, imagined and invented minds inside minds, and a completely void of patterns universe all disconnected entities, no regularity (but you need patterns to recognize no patterns ? relative entities based on absolute ?).

There are no absolutes, only lies.

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“only lies” is an absolute, but then one would be correct if to mean that there is nothing that can be perfectly known (one can see something as possible though, as likely, maybe) all we can do is speculate. All we can do is act based on speculations, as there is nothing else to act on.

the symbols that process other symbols, do they require each other or symbols, or other symbols to exist?

Maybe there is an objective truth, we just can’t absolutely know what it is?
Can we get close to it?
Can we be aligned with it by chance? Is that why some things work out nicely?

“(but you need patterns to recognize no patterns ? relative entities based on absolute ?).”
Does something have to be absolute to know it?

12

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/change … ve-in.html

The problem is that of giving importance to other people and their judgments, minds, how they measure you etc. as if it were objective - a reference and such. But all of that is worth zero, a person is just an arbitrary measurement of another with no deeper rule or objectivity aside that invented and forced by laws, religions, politics, culture, rituals, language etc. So this is why some crazy takes a gun and shoots kids in schools, he sees there is no objective rule or value, no absolute, only himself and decides to do as he pleases.

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The denotation, the indirection, the non symmetry of the circuit: you see some abstraction, remote mechanism that you don’t like (like world hunger, Bill Gates having billions, or any other trillions of news and information from things far away that don’t have a direct pain/pleasure reaction to you, but just imagined, indirect, politics, the choices made, the wars, almost 99.999 % of everything we recieve as information) and you get mad, pissed off, angry, and you would like to change it but you can’t, your effect and power on anything is zero, but the effect of the information is 100 on you because of this circuit. Kill the circuit, ignore all problems, kill the importance of any outside problems like politics, peak oil, global warming, and trillions of others, those suffering here and there and the health kare crap, and this and that, all crap, all invisible and non existent indirections and symbols that punish you but you can’t punish them back, you can’t change them. Disconnect the circuits from both directions. Extreme subjective entity, no more outside, finally free…

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“But you can be sure Nature is telling you to get local, get smaller, get finer, downscale, solidify your friendships, and drop your stupid grandiose fantasies about running WalMart on algae. This is change you don’t have to believe in, because it is about to jump up and bite you on the lips.”

Yeah…pretty much…

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The funny thing though is that such is blind to what one really pleases to do I would think, doesn’t one really not want to go to jail, really want to be able to live so that one can do what one pleases longer and more efficiently…at the least…I see other reasons but…?

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I would think one can just learn not to be angered by it, when they realize how silly those things are, and then let those things compound on them but they do nothing, one can go about impervious to such and still act to change what seems important, at least to them.

17

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/high-corn.html

I love death, worship death, kill “life”, love the void, static, “nothing”. That is the secret, love the “end”, death, no life, no movement anymore, the final defeat (or victory ?).

Prefer “nothing”, love empty, nothing, kill life, love death, a new religion…

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I heard that 16 trillion dollars were loaned to the banks to bail them out…16 trillion…and there is probably no way they can pay it back any time soon.

19

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/high-corn.html

The mistake is that of concentrating much of the money, trillions in the same old hands over and over again, the same old rich and monopolists and such over and over forever and they get richer and richer. Sure some new rich and inventors and companies are born but 90 % of the cash keeps on going in the same hands. This doesn’t create economic growth because the rich already have all they need, you can’t pump up consumerism and the economy by giving money to the rich, that money doesn’t go back into the economy and create more wealth and such it just goes into financial crap and such.

In order to change this you got to give out Free Salaries and Cheap Rents, hire millions of people, even to do nothing at all but just to give them a salary (the higher the better) we need less of “you have to deserve it” mentality and more redistribution.

But the dominating mentality and powers that be keep on insisting you have to deserve the cash and job, you got to be productive, you got to have skills and such huge crap. So, since this arbitrary mistake, this choice that the dominating will powers want, just because, because they suck, can’t be changed then TOUGH LUCK.

Also Bustin J. get over protecting nature, kill nature, hate nature, dominate nature, MIND OVER MATTER, build trillions of Skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars and such, get over this religion worshiping nature you have, it sucks.

20

From:

kunstler.com/blog/2011/08/high-corn.html

Stupid economists and politicians still can’t get it through their think head that this economic system, the Technological Economy is creating “joblessness”, “negative work”, “Free Time”, by the boatloads, ever more millions of people idle, not needed to produce, not necessary anymore, ever more Free Time, idle time, millions of people that have way too much Free Time on their hands and nothing to do (in hobby factories they could have produced trillions of Skyscrapers and Rockets to Mars, go figure, instead they are kept in front of the Internet and TV).

We are producing the “NOT need of jobs” the “NOT need for work” by the boatloads ever more: work is becoming obsolete, is old fashioned, is not necessary anymore but everyone has this idiotic idea like brainwashed drones that we need to “produce”, we need to “work”, we need to be active and all such lies.

This old fashion production - factory based - work ethic based - 18th century ideology just can’t be changed but the rich and corporations gain trillions of dollars by the boatloads brainwashing everyone that they need to be productive, produce, make things and all such crap and hence don’t deserve to have a salary, they “have to deserve it”.

We need much less, nay, we need to kill this idea of “you have to deserve it”, the only thing this economic system is producing for real is Free Time, worklessness, “negative work”, ever more Free and Idle time, ever more no need to work (and no need to apply). The more productive that little real work left becomes (and it is becoming ever more so through technology and optimizations) the ever more less real work and future jobs will be needed. Get over it.