I would say you were exercising wishful thinking. What makes you think this is the case? More to the point, how would it be the case?
All the evidence points to things having a definite beginning (including time and space), I can run through it with you if you like.
Please do. Only hard evidence, though. I wanna see proof, none of this “pointing to” stuff. I’ve seen my share of that.
Something is word that represents existing matter or spirit, what does nothing represents ?
Are you trying to say something like, when one person( physicaly ) Die,
that is not end ?
Birth of your life wasn’t beginning ?
If you’ve made statements like that in Albania, you would end up in Mental hospital on somde heavy “downer” medication.
If for argument sake, 2000 years ago, you told that to Jesus, He would
tell you, "Don’t say that out loud, you will get us both stoned "
your relief is that, I am the only one, on this forum, who see, what you’ve
said, this way.
much ways !
Very good point. You have changed my mind, my friend. There was a start to our universe and there will be an end. But, time and matter did not start with our universe and will not end when our universe dies. For example, our body is a universe in a universe in a universe and so on. When our body (universe) is born or dies the larger universes’ time and matter is not affected. When we are born this does not start time and matter; when we die this will not stop time and matter. Maybe for the smaller universes within us (cells, etc.) but not larger (planets, etc.).
But we’re talking about the past! All we can hope to do is look at evidence which exists today and infer (“point to”) what is likely to have happened in the past. Your request for “hard evidence” is therefore unreasonable.
We have existing hard evidence for an expanding universe. We also have evidence to support Einstein’s theory that time is a dimension, similar (though not identical) to space. The general assumption from this is that the universe (both space and time) had a beginning (the “big bang”). There is no hard proof for this, but it is the simplest postulate which supports the known facts of the present.
Do you have a different theory which support the facts of today? (And simply stating, “there is no beginning or end” is not a theory; it has been called “wishful thinking”, but it’s more “proof by assertion”, and has no validity whatsoever.)
–
Leathon
Murdoc, if you expect me to explain stuff, could you explain yourself too (meaning the questions i asked)?
Im afraid i will have to point to stuff though, as i dont have the attention span to draw diagrams and do my own experiments. 
There’s the Doppler effect. You can observe this with sound waves as cars whizz past you; as they approach the sound is high pitched and as they move away it is lower pitch, making a distinctive “eeeeEEEOOOooooow” noise.
This is because the sound waves the car are released at a constant speed regardless of the velocity of the vehicle, and so if its coming towards you it partially ‘catches up’ with its own sound waves meaning there is less distance between them. This creates a higher pitched noise.
The reverse is true of the car moving away, there is more distance between each complete sound wave as the movement of the car is adding distance between each one.
This effect is also observed in astronomy with light waves. Celestial bodies that are moving away appear to be emitting lower frequencies of light then they should be, and it just so happens that everything in the universe is apparantly moving away, and not only that, the further away it is means the faster it is moving.
Now picture a balloon with points drawn around its surface. As you inflate the balloon, the distance between any two given points will increase, and the further away the point is, the faster it would move. This is a similar model to the universe.
The balloon expands not because of the velocity of each individual point on its surface, but because its being filled with air. Similarly, the universe expands not because the particles which make it up were fired from each other in an explosion but because space is expanding and pushing the particles apart. This also means of course that the universe originated at a single point, and since time and space are inextricably linked, time originated as a single point too.
I can justify the existence of spacetime too if you like, or i can go over anything you’re not clear on or want to contest, but i think this post is long enough for now.
remember to answer the questions in my previous post,
Cheers!
What about a balloon within a balloon within a balloon within a balloon and so on for infinite. One balloon pops and all the balloons inside of it also pop. But, the larger do not. Not only that but picture not one balloon within a balloon but as many balloons you can possibly fit into the larger balloon.
So if one of these smaller ones “pop” there are others still in the larger one. Also, all the balloons contained in the smaller popped balloon also pop. So yes I now agree with you that there is a start and end. But, I don’t think time and space stops when only 1 balloon pops.
For example, when a planet “pops” the solar system is affected but does not also pop. Futhermore, all that was contained in or on the planet also “pops”. When a solar system is destroyed there are many others still there taking up space and time. Everything contained in that solar system tells a different story.
I think we should end this discussion, though because there is no way of getting a definate conclusion. For things of this nature people require proof and I believe it is impossible to prove anything like this. Scientists are just wasting their time and so are we. To prove this we would have to be God. Which is what some (maybe even most) scientists and philosophers are after.
The point is, that I can not change your mind, you can not change your mind
either. What you think, feel , believe, right now, was always Murdoc, it’s just
that you did not realize it yet.
And that did not happend because of Time (like, you got more mature, and
now you think different than when you were 15 year old), but because of
Information you’ve received.
You need to understand that You were never wrong as a Person, as a
Living soul that have living spirit.
You are in control of your thoughts ( which is @ the same time, the only thing one can control ), your thinking gave birth to a belief that
nothing is everything.
That belief does not make you crazy or stupid as a Person, because you
are not crazy or stupid. Belief itself is not truth, that is why is wrong.
Seconds, minutes , hours … are Measurements of time, we all know that,
I am not from different planet, or ignorant, to deny time measuring devices, just saying that one can not feel free if is limited in any way.
That’s why don’t mind me telling the truth, you will be OK, one way or
another.
much respect !
Hmm … I am having trouble understanding your lack of english, piecefull.
Okay I can see you guys are playing the infinite, what’s the point¿¿¿ Time is not relative only to us humans… time is retrospect not relative…. The most recent account that time is a constant was a long time ago. Just like light it can speed up and slow down. The environment in which a calculated narrative is always a compound of its existence shows time is a changeable as you and me. In conclusion time is predictable if you understand the direction it is going in.
To the poor laymen who have a life dictated by a social time piece just be happy that you are able to take a measure of your meek and sombre life as for the rest of you who have gained the recognition of the space and time outside of your box then enjoy the fruits of your labour….
Point of time is life, life does not and can not exist outside of reality (relativity) so when did time begin when the third dimension required a measure of an expanding dimension, its all relative, get it, got it, good, move on…
And why do you think this is the case? What evidence do you have?
You are talking about things beyond possible experience and as such it is sheer speculation at best, at worst it will be sheer nonsense.
If you want such views to be considered, you must show why you believe them.
What is explained by your theory which conventional theories miss? What phenomena is more consistantly described?
We arent talking clumps of matter though, but the expansion of time and space itself. Two entirely different and very incompatible scenarios. If all of spacetime begins or goes pop, what else can there be? And more importantly, why should there be something more than our current conception of spacetime? At the moment it appears just wishful thinking.
I think you are on the wrong forum if you like definite conclusions , but aside from that, if your beliefs are based in any kind of fact then that means you can always attempt to give a pursuasive argument.
Im not asking for a formal proof or a list of experimental data, just something more convincing than “it feels right”.
This is offensive and untrue. Scientists are quite obviously not working in a field where it is impossible to prove anything as they make attempts to do so quite frequently and some even succeed. Neither are philosophers for that matter.
Alas, for argument that tries to pursuade through rational discourse rather than waxing poetical.
it’s illogical to assume that ‘time’ has a beginning.
Why do you think this?
I give my reasons for thinking otherwise above.
At some point, around 13-18 (i forget the latest figure) billion years ago there simply was nothing before that point. No time and no space at all.
In response to the original question: There cannot have been “a time” when time began. Because that would presuppose some time-scale to date that event (ie - the beginning of time.)
David Street
Not necessarily. Numbers are a good analogy.
Time began at 0, and 0 still counts as a time, albeit a slightly peculiar one.
no, it’s possible, but i don’t think you can say that. the big bang refers to an event that took place in the space of a split second (actually, much less than that, but i don’t feel like finding the actual figure) after the “initial” existence of the universe.
whether this “initial” existence had time the way we understand it now, or any laws, or anything like that, is unknowable.
i don’t know much about theoretical physics, but from what i’ve read, i think that’s a reasonable conclusion.
Time is the succession of events. If there is a point where there is no succession of events then there is no time.
Actually we dont know what happened at the big bang or before. The farthest we can go back is a planks unit after the big bang.
it is not time that has a begining but movement.
times essence is movement. without movement there is no time and movement depends on energy, which becomes substance. and energy and/or substance always is, since absolute nothing will always be absolute nothing. since absolute nothing has no time(movement) space( a place to manifest) and dimension( ability too manifest).
therefore movement, time, is infinite.
Oreso,
What evidence do you have of what you think? I assure you we are both on the same level with this.
I do not expect my beliefs to be considered. Not by the likes of you. Please just consider me a wishful thinker and ignore me. What I say is not for you.
I agree, completely.
“Energy cannot not be created, nor destroyed.”
If energy cannot be created, then what the hell is this big bang theory everyone is so obsessed over? There needs to be some re-thinking here. The big bang most likely happened but we are still confused little human beings. There is more yet to be discovered. That is all I am saying. But, I am only a wishful thinker.
P.S. -
I wonder what other things are infinite? (Haha)