I wonder about that now. We suck. Only France has something, and Britain, but only because that’s sort of America as well. Italy, Spain, germany, Sweden Greece, Switzerland, Austria, Yugoslavia… what are they to anyone? Iraq at least means somthing. Iran is up there with China as a serious nuciance to American dominion. Even the conquered Japan is illustrous in it’s economic power.
The AMericans way; spend less energy, accomplish more.
Illustrated by the illustrous Jefferson, who said that some physical excersize every day was important to the health, but unhealthy to strain the body - so shooting a gun did the trick for him.
Is anyone here proud to be European? Does anyone respect Europeans?
Britain is in control of everything.
Don’t be fooled by their own desire for secrecy – you guys are the most clever group of people on the planet.
I think everyone just like to think that - but when viewed from a very basic point of view, what would Britain do without America? In simple terms, what would anyone do without America? A lot of nation would be completely clueless what ot tell their people. Holland for one. Politically - everyone’s prime occupation is America - detesting America’s politics and consuming American music, films and food.
of the economical powers in Europe, I can only see France prospering without American input. France owukd in fact benefit because it would become the dominant culture immediately. France could also deal with Iran, Syria, etc - they have friendly relations. But the rest of Europa can’t. They’d be culturally overrun by irrational fanatics. They (we) are defeneseless because we rank cultural relativism above national pride.
I speak from daily experience here fo course - The Netherlands are supposed to be an enlightened country. Maybe we were once. but trust me - we’re not not now.
The head of the immigration department.
Voted the most popular woman in the nation.
Began her political career as prisonwarden.
A French waiter in a Dutch book I’m reading; ‘America is on the road to world dominion. At some point, it will stumble. The chaos resulting form that noone can imagine.’
Check out my Income Tax thread in SS.
I agree whole heartedly with the quote, and you to an extent. Just keep in mind America is still a colony – the video shows that.
Technically US may still be a colony. But according to the big majority of 7 billion people its the boss - that has to count for something right?
Read your post tomorrow - busted of a halloween party (we didnt even celebrate that here until 2 years ago, now hip people wear masks while trying to bounce to Busta Rhymes…
lol.
The US -is- powerful, but think about it… Bush/Cheney/Rove, those guys are all knighted; they’re working for the British interests.
I’ve heard this. supposedly the world is ruled by 5 families - 5 less than before WWII. (I even heard that WWII was only a fight between these families)
But I’m not so much talking of politics as culture - we have little to do with these families, Bush doesn’t constitute American culture. Eminem does - the Sporano’s - strong cultural expressions. Europa lacks that.
Britain has some things I admit - but the mainland has very little to offer.
I’m saying this in part in relation to Nietzsche - he claims that form Europe’s fertile soil a superior culture will arise. I wonder how that would happen if we are too weak to produce any culture at all. Or will it rise from Sauwelios?
Ah, you’re only saying that because you think Ben will read it. 
Europeans aren’t really a group of people - the Spanish have nothing in common with the Czechs, except for their cultural sterility. That is what makes America so bold and fertile - it’s identification with itsef as an ideal. The same goes for the French, and used to go for Italy, Spain, Austria and Germany.
Germany, Spain, Italy and Austria have lost their cultual pride for some time now - The latter are sterile right now. But, and this is, I suppose sort of an answer to the threads question, Germany is on the rise again - Germany showed it’s proud face again in the form of Rammstein.
‘resurrecting the slain idol’ seems appropriate. It is interesting to note that the group’s sense of it’s own ethics is strong enough to affirm and at the same time ridicule American power
youtube.com/watch?v=eOrtk3gX5H0
- as opposed to the rest of Europe, which, in it’s ridicule, is indignant, resentful.
Perhaps you think a rockband is trivial in the grand scheme of intercontinental power; I think not, it’s a powerful form of identification with a shared ideal - ie of pride, which is a prerequisite for power.
Gobbo - watched the first part of the film - facinating. Reminds of the Templar’s take over of European politics by inventing a credit system and making politics dependent on it.
But there’s one thing - neither of us has seen America before 1913 - the America that I love is that of post WWII - when the bankers allready had control of it.
So there’s this difference btween politics and culture that is emphasized in this thread. What do you think?
Bah? Would you happen to be able to cite a source on this? I would be curious to read about this theory. Though this kind of idea borders on the nutty, it still warrants investigation. At the very least it’ll be an amusing read.
Although I am not a European citizen, I respect Europe far more than America. When America can produce a Nietzsche, a Kant, a Rousseau, or a Schopenhauer, then it may gain a little more respect from myself.
I’m with you Fent - I too respect European culture a hell of a lot. But what you’ve said is unfair. In the last century America has produced some amazing philosophers that may one day be as highly thought of as those you have listed. We won’t know until we are all long gone how really respected American philosophers are. Can anyone predict what people will think of people like W V Quine , John Rawls, or Chomsky?
“Europe” has never existed as a great power. We are talking about possibly the most historically quarrelsome region of any size on the face of the planet. Some historical great powers have been European, including Alexander’s empire, that of Rome, Spain, France, Germany, and Great Britain, and Russia if one considers Russia to be part of Europe – which it sort of is and sort of isn’t.
America, politically, is the inheritor of the British Empire, not in the way Old Gobbo meant, but simply because the U.S. won World War II without paying the kind of price Britain did, and because America had the size and internal power to control a great empire which Britain did not, and because the British themselves saw the U.S. as a logical heir and supported the exertion of American power as British power faded, where they opposed the similar exertion of Soviet power.
The problem with Europe as a global power lies in its disunity. In terms of population, overall wealth, infrastructure, natural resources, and technology, Europe is either on a par with or exceeds the U.S. across the board. But the U.S. is one country, speaking one language, under one government, whereas Europe is none of these things.
It’s phenomenal that countries like Britain, France, Spain, and Germany can get along at all, given their belligerent history. Since they apparently can, there is hope that eventually Europe will pull together enough to “kick some American ass.” But it isn’t happening as I write.
A greater thing yet would be outgrowing the notion that nations need to “kick ass” on each other at all.
Yeah, that would be good, but I don’t see it happening as long as nation-states remain sovereign and independent.
Not so nutty - nutty is the idea that out of hundreds of millions of individuals a political consensus could naturally be created and sustained every day. Stale rule by few man is easier the long term than dynamic
energetic democracy. This last form of politics is only possible when a nation thrives and throbs with new spirit.
Rule of the people lives, tyranny exists. Rule of the masses does not exist - it is either rule of the most sublime majority or an oppression of th eweak by the merciless while the sublime make art for themselves.
They are all long dead. America is is alive and live on every continent 24 hrs a day.
America is simpy a power ruled by more than one man. That is why it is an extreme power. it far surpasses Alexander’s Greece in terms of politics. When Alexander fell away, the empire immediately fell apart. That cannot happen to America. That is why it is a more enduring power, and can reach farther consequences. (for example spaceflight, the internet, genetic manipulation, electronicly enhanced music, cinema.
Men 7 feet tall. The porn industry. Atomic bombs.
No power, you say? Whatever your definition of a state, tthat America is not a power is a hard case to make, and needs much explanation to stand a chance of be take seriously. America is the first identity a collective of men have chosen which has the power to destroy itself and with that the rest of the earths organic substance without any effort at all, but instead choose to make justification the law and succeed in exponential growth of computing powers for 40 years
Yes; surely important thing to notice here is that both are english speaking nations. Language is definitve in the persuading powers of a culture. Success in Persuading other nations to culturally adapt is power far more penetrative and persistent than military might.
Europe is more diverse, but it is not and has never been a unity. It has never been entirely conquered by any govermnent. It is a continent, not a power. They speka different languages for christ stake. They don’t have a sense of each others’s cultural expression at all. What are we talking about here? Only France and Brittain count as powers, and both are as ununited as ever.
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It’s phenomenal that countries like Britain, France, Spain, and Germany can get along at all, given their belligerent history. Since they apparently can, there is hope that eventually Europe will pull together enough to “kick some American ass.” But it isn’t happening as I write.
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It dodn’t come easy - about 100 million political deaths in a few decades. Same as with the pacification of South America by the Spaniards and Portugese. These 150 million was done by axe, though. Anyway, I may sound a little sarcastic, it’s just very hard ot empathise with something where the first hint of identification with the reality of it’s entirety can cause madness.
Finally - even though the nationality of some bankers suggests so, America and Britain are not one. London is a place where people live who talk with funny accents. New York is only New York.
Exactly. Instead of perfect balance we have a dialectic. But I think that’s life.
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Yes, I suppose it would. Who here has said anything even remotely resembling that?
I like Richard Rorty to an extent, and Rawls isn’t bad either. But I dislike Chomsky because I heard he charges over $100 just to see him speak! A true philosopher speaks not for money. Also, I don’t mind Rorty’s view on human rights, actually I think he’s definitely on the proper track in regard to his methodology, but he has apparently claimed that America is the best political system of human rights there is. Sorry, I do not agree.