Where does the origin return to?

All things will eventually return to the origin, but where would the origin return to?

All things that flow will flow down hill and travel back to the origin, where would that origin return to, and that origin return to?

What is the origin? Or what comes after revelation?
Is it true that the beginning is the end , the end is the beginning?
When there is a beginning you are half way there?

The origin, by definition, has nothing to “return to” other than itself…Otherwise, it wouldn’t be the origin.

Short answer: itself

Long answer: we cannot talk of such things and should pass over such things in silence

The origin is the smallest piece of matter in the universe. The piece that science has yet to discover. it exists, it is the building block of all things. Its numbers reach infinite X infinite X infinite and on. All things break down to this piece of matter. We each have infinite pieces of this matter in us. It is what all other pieces of matter are made of. Our microscopes have yet to glimpse this sturdy unbreakable piece, when they do, I predict great changes in the universe. The first people to spy this piece will probably go insane. Why?

I don’t mean to be picky and stuff but these statements are contradictory. We need to watch how we use infinite. If these building blocks are infinite, (never ending), then the universe must be infinite as a result…we can’t have a finite universe made up of infinite building blocks. Physicists believe the universe is finite…it had a beginning, it has an end…so we can’t speak of an infinite number of building blocks. But the contradiction in these statements does not depend on what the physicists say. Watch:

If the universe was infinite, then I would be the universe.

How could there be anything else? I am the universe.

See what I mean? Contradictory. Must be careful.

If the universe was finite why does the universe is constantly expanding?
If there is a beginning and an end, then, there is no such thing as eternal elements.

If there is an absoulte beginning and an absoulte end, then, the universe will not be a spherical structure, but something linear or an angular structure. However, if it was like a circle, picking a coordinate, that point lies at the same time beginning and end, therefore, contradiction is possible. Hey, just sharing my humble cosmos, astronomy, and geometry concepts.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I was talking about at one particular moment in time. Just cause the universe is expanding doesn’t mean it’s infinite. Because the universe is expanding that in itself proves that it has not yet reached infinity.

Sure there are. The elements are eternal because time does not exist independently of the universe. If the universe ends, everything does, even time.

Entropy = time


“An atom (Greek άτομον from ά: non and τομον: divisible) is a submicroscopic structure found in all ordinary matter. It is the smallest unit of an element to retain all the chemical properties of that element. The word atom originally meant a smallest possible particle of matter, not further divisible. Later, the objects that had been called atoms were found to be further divisible into smaller subatomic particles, but the word atom nonetheless continues to refer to them.”

So, we see that what atoms are made of has already been identified.

Dan Wrote

Only as far as the most powerful microscopes can tell. Technology has yet to fully conclude that. I hold that they will discover more.

Kriswest wrote:
We each have infinite pieces of this matter in us. It is what all other pieces of matter are made of.


Physicist is still a new science comparetively, they have much to learn yet.

Quote: kris
We each have infinite pieces of this matter in us.


I could really ask you to prove that you are not the universe which would be quite difficult infact it probably would be harder then proving you are the universe. Once the cogs in our heads set into motion all probable answers can become possible.
Consider: everything in the universe is the universe, that includes you and I. We are a part of a whole. Our matter existed and exists as a part of the universe. Therefore you are the universe.

It is what all other pieces of matter are made of.


Contradictory not at all. Matter in the universe is a whole .yet seperate. Infinite is exactly what infinite means uncountable and going on for seeming ever, an amount with out end. Even should the universe explode, implode or all motion stop or just end as we can conceive it. Matter in the most tinest of particles will still be there, the building block of all matter could not in any way stop existing even a void would not be without it.
Hmm describe antimatter. what is it and how does it exist? It too can be broken down too the tinest piece. To measure the universe at this stage is impossible it is only theory and not totally proven either way. Universal pieces flow and become a part of us. So you are the universe.
I could accept what scientists and Physicists theorize right now but, I know it will change and it will change again and again. they are like infants in their fields. All things break down to smaller pieces. Even the pieces break down to smaller pieces. The only piece that we have no proof of being able to break down yet is the sub atomic particle, give it time. Technology will change that too.

what is itself? Is it not itself refers to knowing oneself? And by knowing oneself we become godlikes, isn’t that is our goal, to master oneself?
And if we do not talk about these things and let them pass over us, it would being saying virtues does not matter and let all the vices and evil desires ruin us without exploration of things.


Kris is perhaps the only closet person in this discussion who understands the idea of orgin and what I am trying to get to. ( you have my praise) =D>

It is like pouring water into a cup, and puting that water into another cup.
Would the origin be from the first cup? or before the creation of water?
Inifinitely and finite is revelant in the discussion, but it is not the essential
piece of the argument that I am looking for. Change and atoms that are broken to subatomic atoms and perhaps to quantum mechanics is perhaps the closest idea.



. I think that the answer to your cup of water may be first the cup must exist to hold the water but, why create a cup if there is no water? If water exists then something must hold it already. So which was first ? did the container come first then the water or did creating the container create the water or did the container create the water. I could go on but the answer to origin is already there.
The origin is an energy plus the pieces. If sub atomic particles are the building block then energy is the glue. So which created which? either way is likely. Perhaps it took a massive coincidence to make both slam together and begin as origin. What started the reaction? If I had to dig deep I would say matter created energy and the combination created the universe. Two sub atomic particles too close together create an energy, a chain reaction. the 2 particles would only have to be less then 1 one millionth micron apart more then likely a whole lot closer ( I don’t know the minutest measurement.) to react perhaps a polarity came from those 2 particles an attraction. Jeez I need to stop I am going too far in.
At any rate the origin right? All mass must have originated and must return to it. That includes the energy of us eventually. Our souls are subparticles and energy, When do we break down? is at our bodies death? Does not seem likely does it? Energy once released changes.
Is it possible that the energy that is us, escapes the dissolving case(our body) and changes ? or passes through at a different speed of travel then the case. we know that molecules travel at different speeds as does energy. hmm what do you think. I see where I could make changes here and subtract or add but, lets hear your thoughts dan02

This is too much information, and should not go in depths. Just put it into something more simple. Lets try to put it in a model. The model I refer to is a circle and pick a point. Thus it would say that it is half way there. In life, when we start something we completed half of it. Now, let this point revolve clockwise until it completes 360. Thus it has return back to its origin. The beginning is the end or the end is the beginning , contradiction is possbile , and it may not be for some others because of their lack of judgments. Like the wind can be hot and cold, one may feel hot and the other may feel cold because one may be sick and the other is healthy or one is young the other is old.

About the question of energy and atoms, I cannot give a full answer.
But as I read something that is worthy of wonder that is relevant is, when research says that people who practice mediation emits alpha particles or energy .

I am interested in wonders not knowledge. And all concerns that relates to life , that makes one free, and not isolation of studying something we can never find the truth, like whats infinity and finite.

Wonders of life come in many forms. From the tinest flower to the largest.
The circle of life sounds like what you are refering to which is apt . I feel that to answer any question about life, origin we must explore different avenues. I feel that our minds/souls are the evolution not our bodies. How far we take them is up to us, our bodies are mere vehicles and part of the evolution would be to allow science to take our bodies as far as they can in order to assist our minds to evolve. Once the smallest particle(s) are revealed I believe origin will be found and our evolution will begin. we must at least attempt the circle and not fear it.

Dear dan020350,

It was the short answer…

It wouldn’t be saying that at all. You are asking a bizarre metaphysical question that isn’t (in my view) answerable, therefore it is pointless to talk about it (no offence, by all means keep talking about it if you feel that you’re getting somewhere) therefore we should pass over it (not the other way round) in silence…


I now have come to believe that “time” is algorythmic.
An algorythm is a structure.
Structures can be restructured.
Precognition is an example of slight reverse-engineering of time.

Also @ dan02,
the origin of all things is probably the chaosphere.

If you believe in something else before time is algorythimic, would not your beliefs will change in the future.

I will tell you a truth what I believe what the origin is, which is to a place that has no light, the only light there is, is this being emiting light, which I call God.

Back to the tiny little speck of the pre-big bang. And then? Pthhp Who knows?

Has any one considered that things move and change. Things come and go. Nothing remains the same.
If you don’t believe in pure determinism AND an absolute start point what does the investigation of origans add to that in particular?