Who created God

Who created God

God has no beginning and no end because God is unimaginable. The beginning and the end must be also unimaginable for an unimaginable item. The beginning and the end of the cosmic energy or space or the creation are also unimaginable. Therefore, the beginning and the end are unimaginable for the unimaginable item like God and also for the imaginable item like space. Therefore, the two points, which are the beginning-less and end-less characteristics cannot help you in understanding the real nature of God. If you start recognizing the God by simply these two points (beginning-less and end-less), you may think that God is an imaginable item like the space or energy or the creation. In fact based on these two characteristics people have imagined God as an imaginable item like space or energy or creation. This concept has misled people to such a low level that people think that God is the very infinite space or infinite energy or infinite creation. Therefore, one should filter the concept of God at this juncture itself. One should think that God has no beginning and no end because the beginning and the end of an unimaginable item are also unimaginable.

Such God desired to create this Universe for entertainment. The very desire itself is the Creation. In view of God this present materialized universe in only an idea or imagination or the very desire itself. Therefore, the desire to create the world is itself the desire and also the created world itself is a desire. Thus the creation, maintenance and dissolution of the imaginary world are also imaginations or desires. A part of this infinite creation is the individual soul. The soul is like a drop of the infinite ocean of imagination or desire of God. Thus, quantitatively the entire ocean of imagination of God is very huge compared to the tiny soul. Remember that both the Universe and the tiny soul are made of the same substance called as imagination or desire. Thus the force of the Universe is far greater than the force of the soul. Due to such huge quantitative difference of the same phase, the Universe, which is far stronger than the soul appears as a materialized entity for the soul. But this infinite ocean of desire, which is the infinite Universe is a tiny drop compared to the infinite force of God. Therefore, again due to the same quantitative difference of force the entire universe is just the very weak imagination from the view of God. Thus imagination and materialization exist simultaneously true from the point of God and soul.

For the sake of entertainment, God desired to create the Universe. This statement is in Veda (Sa dviteeya Maicchat). In this statement there is a very subtle intermediate stage, which is the essence of the desire to create the Universe. The desire to create the world is like the golden ornament but the essence of such desire is like the raw gold in which the ornament is not yet expressed. Such raw essence of the desire is pure awareness. The pure awareness is a special subtle form of energy, which is not qualified by any form. Such pure awareness is called as the spirit, which is not qualified and does not have any attribute. This is called as “Nirguna Brahman”, which means the pure awareness, which has no reference to the creation of the universe. It is a very critical and subtle point to recognize the pure awareness. Veda says that only very very sharp intelligence can grasp that critical state (Drushyate Tvagraya bhuddhya). Sankara, the topmost genius among the spiritual preachers could grasp that state and proposed the concept of Nirguna Brahman or non-qualified pure awareness. Such pure awareness is the first creation of God (Parabrahman). This first creation is almost as critical and unimaginable as the very Parabrahman itself. The only difference is that Parabrahman is absolutely unimaginable for any sharp intelligence, but this pure awareness is imaginable only for a very sharp intelligence. This pure awareness is called as Mula Prakriti or Suddha Sattvam or Mula Avidya or Mula Maya or the Spirit in general. The Parabrahman maintains such spirit and it is only an associated item and is the first created item. The word Mula means the first. This spirit is in the form of knowledge. It is aware of itself, which means that it is knowledge. Knowledge requires both subjective and objective characteristics. It is subject as well as the object. Therefore, it is called as knowledge or Sattvam. This knowledge is the first form of energy.

Energy is always active. Action is the characteristic of Rajas. Such Spirit is unaware of its own creator who is the God. Therefore, it is having ignorance or Tamas. Thus, the Knowledge itself is action and ignorance. According to Gita Knowledge is Sattvam (Sattvaat Sanjayate Jnanam), action is Rajas (Rajah Karmani) and Ignorance is Tamas (Tamastva Jnanajam). Thus these three qualities are always inseparable. The pure knowledge (Suddha Sattvam) itself is pure action (Suddha Rajas), which is the pure ignorance (Suddha Tamas). Thus in the very first instant itself the three qualities are created simultaneously in the purest state. Since all these three co-exist, it is called as equilibrium of the three qualities. When the equilibrium is disturbed various items of awareness result in which the three qualities exist in various proportions. Such disturbance of the equilibrium resulting in various distorted items of the three qualities is the very creation. The various mixtures of these three qualities constitute this diversified universe, which is meant for the play of the God and for His entertainment. When the entertainment is over all the three qualities go into the equilibrium state. Thus the Universe is converted into Mula Prakruti.

God is in association with this Mula Prakruti in the beginning. At this stage the Mula Prakruti is only a creation or created item and cannot do anything further. Its equilibrium continues. In fact the Mula Prakruti is only inert and the continuation of such equilibrium is the inertia. God enters the Mula Prakruti and pervades it. Now this Mula Prakruti is electrified wire. It is the ignited stick and is called as fire. Now this Mula Prakruti becomes divine and is called as Brahman or the Holy Spirit. The Spirit, which is just the inert created item became Holy due to the existence of God in it. Now Brahman multiplies its little part of the Mula Prakruti in which, Parabrahman does not exist. This means that God enters ninety nine percent of Mula Prakruti and not one percent. This little part of un-divine Mula Prakruti is multiplied by the disturbed equilibrium and the Universe appears. Thus, the pure awareness in which God pervaded becomes Brahman. Now Brahman becomes the spectator of the Universe. The little pure awareness into which God did not enter is modified into the Universe in which God does not exist. Here the modification does not mean materialization. The modification means the undisturbed equilibrium being converted into disturbed equilibrium. In both the states the substance is only awareness. You can compare this to a day-dreamer’s mind. The mind of the day-dreamer is Mula Prakruti. A little part of the mind is converted into dream. The mind, which is not converted, is a spectator of the dream. The dreamer is identified with the spectator part of the mind. Thus the dreamer is witnessing the dream through his unmodified mind. The dreamer has not entered the dream and therefore is not multiplied.

When the dream city is burning neither the spectator part of the mind is burnt nor the dreamer. The spectator part of the mind itself can be treated as the dreamer because the dreamer entered that spectator part of the mind and exists in it. Thus, Brahman, the spectator of the Universe can be treated as Parabrahman. Such Parabrahman who is the spectator of the Universe is called as Eeshwara. Thus, Parabrahman is the original unimaginable creator. Mula Prakrithi is the first created item, which is the pure awareness. Brahman is the major part of pure awareness in which Parabrahman entered and occupied it. The same Brahman enjoying the Universe by vision is called as Eeshwara. Neither Parabrahman nor Brahman nor the Eeswara has entered the Universe, which is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities. Thus, there is no disturbance in either Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara. In Christianity God is Parabrahman. Brahman and Eeshwara are called as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the substance with which the Universe is made of. The spirit is not Holy because God did not occupy it. Thus the Universe is not Holy in Toto. It is Holy with reference to the good devotees and the divine incarnations. It is unholy with reference to bad living beings and Saturn. Parabrahman who is a spectator for sometime develops a desire to enter this Universe in the form of a living being especially as a human being because the main aim is to preach the divine knowledge.

Veda says the same (Tadevaanu Praavishat). This divine human being in which, Parabrahman or Brahman or Eeshwara exists is called as human incarnation or God in Flesh. The human incarnation consists of four items. The first item is God. The second item is the Mula Prakruti, which is the pure awareness or Brahman or Aatman or Karana Sareeram (Casual Body). The third item is the disturbed equilibrium of the three qualities called as Jeeva or Sukshma Sareera (Subtle Body). The fourth item is the Gross body made of five elements (Sthula Sareera) which is again imaginary only in view of God but a materialized form in view of other human beings. If you analyse any ordinary living being it contains all the three bodies except God. If we analyse any inert item of the world it contains only the Gross Body made of the five elements.

God should be understood as the unimaginable creator. Next God can be understood as the unimaginable spectator of the world. Lastly, God should be understood as the unimaginable actor who has entered the Universal Drama in the form of Human Incarnation.

For God being so “unimaginable”… you seem to be able to imagine quite a lot about him! :laughing:

Did God create us in His image, or did we create God in our image?

If god created us in his one image then he must be one confused “screw-up” because according to the institution we are a bunch of “sinful worthless humans” … doesn’t God claim to be an “omniscient being”- all knowing and perfect? And if that is the case, a perfect being would not create an inperfect “work” Consider the logic behind the creator first professing “admiration of his work” and proclaimed it a “masterpiece” but also, in the same accord,“casting condemnation” upon his own work.

What are you quoting?

The institution may be wrong, does this make the concept of God wrong?

What is perfect? Perfect according to what? (It’s imperfect by the way, probably just a typo) :wink:

God is perfect according to the bible. After he creates Adam, he admires his creation and proclaimes that he created a perfect world, along with a perfect human. At that point the concept of sin was not mentioned. But all of a sudden, out of the blue, what happens? A flaw, glitch…Sin…

Did God create sin as a part of his perfect world? :wink:

Just to balance this out… In the Brahamanda Purana, Brahma (the creator) thinks different kinds of thoughts. He thinks about humans, and they are created. He thinks of horrible creatures, creating ogres. He was very disturbed by this thought, casuing his hair to fall out. His hair became the snakes. Still very disturbed and thinking dark thoughts, he created the ghouls. He eventually gained composure, then creating plants and mammals.

This perspective is religious, but I see it as the description of a deterministic universe.

Perhaps perfect refers to potential… the thought, the image, the form (of possiblity). What man CAN do. But man’s self-consciousness, the fruit of knowledge, also causes problems for man.

If God/Brahma/creation/etc had “good thoughts” which created a Garden of Eden (Earth), and this is a very nice, pleasant thought (form) which should be maintained, then perhaps the creation of a being that can learn from the past in order to prepare for the future, ensuring the preservation (Vishnu the preserver is the Hindu equivalent of Jesus, as he is at the middle of the Hindu Trinity) of paradise (however, this amazing transition, the introduction of such a new, unhabituated, unevolved aspect of maintenance on the earth, is bound to stir some waves with its arrival. When one takes a powerful drug (an alteration in feeling/outlook with no positive/negative connotation) there is always a moment of first “feeling it” and adapting to it. It is strange. One is unsure of how to act. Maybe that is the situation on earth. For the human’s perception of time, this is a very long period of time. But for earth? She just took the pill, and her stupid cells haven’t stopped attacking each other. They’ll quickly learn to communicate and then the body will have a very, very powerful defense. But currently the earth’s cells think that THEY are the important ones! Crazy cells.

That isn’t very fair. He is explaining (or at least, attempting to explain) some patterns of how “God” seems to operate. He is hardly saying that he understands “God”/the entire organizational structure of EVERYTHING itself.

I think he seems to be saying quite a lot about God. Read some of his other posts to get a feel for the rediculous rants he goes on.

Are the different thoughts the creator thinks free?
or is he also locked in a deterministic mechanism? :wink:

I like this analogy! We are earth’s silly cells that think we are important. :laughing:

I’ve skimmed through some of his posts. I understand what you’re saying—his messages don’t suggest humility, but I think to suggest he claims to completely understand God is an exaggeration. He might, I don’t know all of the guy’s beliefs, but I don’t think what you said is warranted. In a deterministic universe maybe it is necessary he makes these kinds of posts, in which he continues with the message without questioning his beliefs (truthfully, all of our beliefs are flawed, but if your every cognition rests on this understanding, then you won’t be able to function—you’ll always doubt your belief, and exist in never-ending introspection); even if some of his reasoning is flawed, and some of his claims contain holes (which expressions don’t? We’re using human language), perhaps these works he does will lead a reader to make a connection between two ideas, or to give some area extra thought that he would otherwise not. This can cause a change reaction that ends up progressing thought a great deal.

The guy is contributing to human understanding, as we all are (regardless of whether or not this “understanding” is accurate). Surely all the great thinkers understood their flaws (to a certain degree), but when it is time to get work done one has to focus on productivity, on contributing, not remaining stuck in an inertia of doubt.

Sure he is saying a lot ABOUT “God”, but that doesn’t mean he claims to understand “God” (merely facets of “God”).

I can say things about myself, about my environment, but am I really claiming to understand the universe as a whole?

I hope you understand that “the creator” and “he” doesn’t really accurately describe what I talk about when I refer to “God”. As of right now, I think we exist in a deterministic progression of altering Universes, but I can’t say with any confident whether the most fundamental organizing principles/rules/programs of how the ALL functions/changes/is is free or deterministic; I think anyone that claims an understanding of these things is a complete fool. That’s why I agree with what Swami says about our inability to imagine God. For all we know the Universe as humans currently understand it is less than a grain of sand (both in size and complexity) in the context of everything that is.

(First post nerves, bear with me :confused: )

I’ve thought about this question, because I often hear atheists pose it to try and make theists look stupid. But I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s a question which we can’t yet be expected to answer.
To understand Quantum Physics, you have to understand both basic physics and the nature of the Quantum. Hence, to understand who created God, you have to understand both God and Creation. Considering we know only a small amount about both of these, and even that isn’t certain, no one can answer the question, so it’s unfair to ask it and then make a mockery of people when they can’t answer, because any logical person won’t be able to answer.
I think we often try to go much further than we need to. Start with the basics and work outwards.

God is an uncreated being; he always was and always will be. Some have thought that Occam’s Razor suggests that it is equally reasonable to believe that the universe is uncreated, or that it is self-sustaining, however one must look at the qualitative explanatory power of each statement.

In regard to some of the deterministic statements in this thread, it is notable that we are both determined and have free will. For example, we have been determined in who we are, where we have been born, and by other events beyond our control. However, each person’s faculties of reason eventually develop and then one becomes free to choose some actions.

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Please explain the logic behind this statement. We need to know why you believe you can state this as fact. I don’t deny the possibility, for whilst we always see things as beginning and ending, these are probably human concepts imposed upon us by our observations of birth and death (I don’t believe I came into existence at birth or will cease to exist at death), whilst the truth may well be something quite other which we in our low level of consciousness are unable to grasp.
Still, you need to back up such a statement with logic. I don’t see how you could know such a thing.

dattaswami: you’re all poop.

What you consider to be ‘the spiritual knowledge’ is nothing but the lie.

HAHAHA! :laughing: (I’m sorry :cry: I shouldn’t encourage this behavior)
The truth is, Impious and I would like to get a reaction out of old Swami.

rainshine87, I love your Avatar!

It is Philosopher in Meditation painted by Rembrandt van Rijn, 1632

What? My avatar is a self-portrait I did a few months ago. That’s amazing!!!
:^o

:wink: