Why are people who detest capitalism hypocrites?

if you hate capitalism, don’t own an iPhone.

How hard is that to understand?

Just IPhones? Could you formulate a rule and then support it?

It’s just an example.

If one detests capitalism, don’t live of its fruits. I’m sure most of those annual G20 summit protestors own iPads, iPhones, Galaxy Note’s, etc.

capitalism is more then just phones, they are nice and all, but
capitalism is a system, an economic idea of how things should work.
For example capitalism says the workers are free to shop their skills to
get the best wages, (not true at all, but lets run with the theory for now)
capitalism says government should not be engaged in private enterprise
or restrict private enterprise. The problem is capitalism after a 2 or 3 hundred
year experiment has been a failure. simple as that. it is time for the next
theory of economics to have a run. We have had 8 different economics types
of activity so far in the history in the world, plus countless mix and match of the 8
types. Time for a new theory and thus the attacks on capitalism. It is not about the
toys of capitalism but the theory of capitalism.

Kropotkin

What wrong with living off the fruits of your enemy? Unless of course that consumption facilitates them, in which case it is unwise unless you need to to facilitate yourself over them even further.

Abolitionists used to refrain from eating sugar.

If these people are serious, then make concerted efforts. don’t utilise things from a system you claim to despise.

That’s silly. It is perfectly logical to utilize things from a system you despise so long as it facilitates you in overcoming it.

But then i suppose you are talking about the people that talk bad about capitalism and do nothing about it while facilitating it by utilizing its fruits.

That’s silly. It is perfectly logical to utilize things from a system you despise so long as it facilitates you in overcoming it.

But then i suppose you are talking about the people that talk bad about capitalism and do nothing about it while facilitating it by utilizing its fruits.
[/quote]
Says who? it’s perfectly logical to make a stand against it, provided one wants to appeal to others.

And who says they use it to overcome it? is every e-mail sent by them to overthrow capitalism? If they watch TV, is it for entertainment, or to overthrow market economies?

If people hate capitalism, they cannot use ANY fruit of it for personal gain, fulfilment or enjoyment.

What do you mean by this?

I didn’t say that “they” do, but some do.

Personally I watch things like fox news because by the very lies told you can tell the truth about the state of things by opposition. if you know what i mean.

I agree it is silly to use it in a pointless manner, but if your buying a gun to shoot the seller…

If it lasted for 2 or 3 hundred years perhaps the problem isn’t capitalism but some change to the system at the three hundred year mark.

What’s an I phone?

Abstract: “If it (capitalism) lasted for 2 or 3 hundred years perhaps the problem isn’t capitalism
but some change to the system at the three hundred year mark.”

K: Capitalism has declared itself the “best” “greatest” economic system of all time
based on a very narrow reading of “best” and “greatest”. This idea means that capitalism
is very resistant to change of any kind. It will not go quietly into that good night.

Capitalism is about the value of goods, the cost of products, the pursuit of profit,
none of which is about people. People are an means to an ends and thus expendable.
Therein lies the failure of capitalism, it negates human values which is the very
definition of nihilism. any change you seek must face this basic fact. How do we return
human values to our economic system which is the question of our times.
Which changes does this?

Kropotkin

I’m really no fan of American capitalism myself, it was just a thought, your right.

A person who is born into a capitalist system and detests it has several options:

  1. He can live off the grid (for example, in the mountains of Alaska or West Virginia). Be more self-sustaing. He won’t be completely out of reach of capitalism (there are not very many places in the world that are completely out of reach of capitalism anyways), but he won’t be as affected by it.

  2. He can expatriate, which actually is easier for one born in capitalist society, than, say someone who wants to escape communism or dictatorship.

  3. He can become a revolutionary and attempt to overthrow the system from the inside, but I don’t think it’s going to work. The only way capitalism can disappear, in my opinion, is when it collapses under its own weight.

I don’t watch much TV, but recently, I happened to be flipping through channels and came across a new tv show I have not seen before. It was National Geographic’s Doomsday Preppers, or something like that (I don’t remember exactly). It’s basically a show about the people who wanted to be ready for going off the grid and be more self-sustaining in case of the collapse of society, and it shows how they do it. One unusual thing that I’ve noticed is that the commercials during that program were selling off-the-grid things (instant food, gadgets, etc.) targeting those people as consumer group. The market just found a new niche to work into. Now, I am not saying that dooms day preppers are anti-capitalist, but I’m sure they also attract attention of quite number of those who just want to get away from capitalism and go off the grid as well. My point is, in the end, it’s easier for a capitalist to highjack an anti-capitalist agenda for his own profit than it is for an anti-capitalist to use capitalism against itself.

Edit: Marketing to Doomsday Preppers.
pointcontentmarketing.com/bl … ppers.html

Didn’t say it was easy.

Those aren’t the fruits of “capitalism”. Capitalism doesn’t make iPhones. People make iPhones.

No really what’s an I phone and what has it got to do with communism or capitalism.

I know it’s some apple thing, but I don’t have one, I would like to slam the mobile I have into the wall but I need it. So what is an I phone, I don’t get this powerful connotation with capitalism.

It should not be confused, the idea of non-asset ownership and non-capitalism.
Capitalism is a type of economic structure.
Socialism is a type of government.

Most governments Americans consider to be “Socialist” (firstly, aren’t…but also) actually employ a form of capitalism.
What people, ignorant of the terms - of which we cannot demand them to be versed for the right to complain, are trying to say is that they hate our capitalism.

For example a Social Market Economy (not a “socialist” economy), such as used by current day Germany (not a Socialist government as many Americans believe), is primarily driven by a Free Market philosophy to begin with, but it is then regulated heavily by the government.
Because the government can tell the market, for instance, that you cannot say “Follow us on Facebook” on TV because it condones one company’s business in a market bias, it is a Social system.
This means the “people”, through their Representative Government, tell the market the regulations of its boundaries and do not let it rest upon the natural market limits.

This Social Market Economy is a Capitalist variation economy which may appear more socialist than what an American calls Capitalism, but it is of the same family.

Most Americans are thinking of Free Market economy when they say or write, “Capitalism”, even though, in truth, America is not a Free Market system as there are regulations (such as the FDIC, FCC and FDA) on market standards.

What America actually has running at the moment is what’s called Corporate Capitalism; a market economy heavily marked by large corporations that are legally obligated to pursue profit.
Ironically, it’s a derivative philosophical economy of Karl Marx’s State Capitalist system (where the State owns the leading role of the market).

The majority of the direction isn’t that people want to actually live in communal huts without property.
That kind of implication is hyperbolic.

What people are wanting is a switch from Corporate Capitalism to a Social Market Economy or a switch from a Planned Economy to a Democratic Economy.

The demand of our Corporate Capitalist system to move to a Social Market Economy is identifiable if the person’s primary focus in their conversation is regarding a demand for more regulation upon Corporations that balances the market in the interest of non-bias favor and treats the economy as a servant to the nation and not the other way around, philosophically.

The demand of our Planned Economy (governed; of which even a Social Market Economy is a Planned Economy) to be switched to a Democratic Economy is identifiable if the person’s primary focus in their conversation is regarding a demand for the government to disband Corporate ownership and disperse it into public shares unto the citizens of the nation and that all Citizens of the nation are in some fashion the shareholders of all Corporations of the land.

The latter of these is less realistic, while the former is perfectly reasonable.

In either case, what the person is after is a change from Corporate Capitalism so freely unchecked.

The American public is not as sympathetic as they once were to the philosophy of an entirely Free Market Economy, and the more close a given sector of the economy is to the absolute Free Market Economic structure, the more likely the American public of today will generally have growing distrust of that sector and likely eventually demand reformation with more regulative control (more common demand) or abolition (less common demand).

It’s just a 500 dollar smart phone.

Oh a waste of money. Got it thanks. :slight_smile: