Why? What’s the difference?
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A state IS its citizens. Do you ‘support the troops’ dear?
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the difference between what and what? I have no beef with your liking Jewish people.
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US presidents don’t even go through Congress which was once the rule. It’s not even a representative democracy decision. And you don’t even manage to make an argument. Try fleshing that one out instead of implying some argument. Show us what education and a knowledge of history does.
We could focus, for example, on how few citizens want the Iran War. Or how citizen disapproval really gets the state to do things in the US. Or the hundreds of military interventions in Latin America that citizens weren’t even told of.
You don’t know what you are talking about. But it’s a nice dream.
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I want a future without Iran destroying Israel and funding people who want and keep attempting to destroy/rape Israel and nuke-threatening their way into whatever they want. It would also be nice if Russia were to go with less nukey leadership. And if China were to go with less Taiwan-overloading leadership.
No matter what crazy crap (or how freaking embarrassing the stuff) the U.S. administration is also/instead doing/supporting, I know I want that^.
You know what’d be super great? A freak of nature president to rise up who doesn’t kill babies or old people or suicidal people or terminally ill people who don’t wanna die, and also doesn’t exile cheap labor when they demand fair pay, and also exiles to a prison island people who hoard fair wages so the government can pay them instead, and exiles them harder when they still jack up prices on necessities and expect corporate welfare and tax breaks and muthafricken bailouts.
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Hold on a second.
Are you saying that even England should not have gone to war with Nazi Germany?
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What did it achieve exactly? It was only after the war ENDED that the general public learned about the concentration camps, and even then did they particularly care? Those millions still died. Jews had been desperate to leave Germany long before WW11 started and were met with mostly closed doors. People are such hypocrites. It wasn’t exactly made easy for the Jews who survived either. They had a horrible time in England in particular. And what happened to Poland, the country that England went to war to supposedly ‘defend’? It was thrown soundly under the bus. You are a rabid warmonger anyway. You love war. There’s no point in discussing it with you. Do you have toy soldier armies too? Don’t even get me started on WW1. NO ONE knows what that shit-heap was about.
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Hah, I should have guessed.
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The US regularly takes out leaders it doesn’t like. It could have got rid of Hitler quite easily. No bullet proof vests back then. The Nazis would have been nothing without that figurehead, and he was a broken down drug addict.
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He (Nicholas Winton) also wrote to U.S. politicians such as President Franklin D. Roosevelt, asking them to take more children.[32] He said that two thousand more might have been saved if they had helped, but only Sweden took any besides those sent to Britain.[17][32] The last group of children, scheduled to leave Prague on 1 September 1939, was unable to depart. With Hitler’s invasion of Poland on the same day, the Second World War had begun.[20][30] Of the 250 children due to leave on that train, only two survived the war.
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@Socrates
@MistressOphelia
@greenfuse
Zionism is Judaism, Judaism is Zionism, and Israel is an existential expression of national characteristics founded purely on both.
I don’t think Zionism (a vague term meaning different things to different Jews) is Judaism. There are plenty of Jews including Orthodox Jews in Israel and outside Israel who have said what Israel is doing is not for them, that it goes against Judaism. This is not to say there are no problems with Judaism or any of the Abrahamic religions. They all have seriously sick parts to them. But one can be Jewish, religiously Jewish, secular and heavily culturally Jewish and hate what is happening in Gaza and blame the state of Israel for that, and without contradiction.
A different frame for the issue than we usually get:
Israel, the state, divides people ethinically and by location. You have less freedom and less rights if you are Arab in Israel proper. You have less rights if you are in the West bank than Arabs in Israel proper, you have the least rights in Gaza.
But the system does not just discriminate against Arabs.
Non-Askenazi Jews are systematically discriminated against. That is the Jews who never were part of the Diaspora, who stayed in the area are discriminated against. Same for Ethiopian Jews and Sephardic Jews. Israel has a caste system that even discriminates against Jews, though not to the degree it does against Arabs.
But it’s important to note that the Jews who actually stayed in the area, this Land that God supposedly gave to the Jews, they are down the ladder from Jews who left and have now returned in the caste system.
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Extreme minority of Jews you mention there, a majority of them support the political status quo of Zionism and that’s because religiously Judaism is quite flexible on territorial aggression being entirely self serving.
There would be no modern state of Israel without Zionism and much of what is political Zionism was in fact started by rabbinical Jewish Talmudic scriptures. There is really no separation or difference between these things.
Not in the United States, for example. The majority are very critical of what Israel is doing. Inside Israel it is a minority. And I specifically chose examples of very religious anti-zionist jews. You can justify a lot of things, including opposed positions. They’re messy books.
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- the thumbs down was a good argument, don’t get me wrong, but I’m glad you came around to supporting my position and to such an extreme degree, no less.
Again, majority of secular and religious Jews support Zionism along with Israel.
“A majority of Jews are critical of Zionism, Israel, and Benjamin Netanyahoo.”
That’s where you’re again wrong.
If you understood Judaism you would understand why that is.
Everybody thinks Islam is the most religiously extreme until they look into the Judaic extremists.