Why do Christians buy Medical Insurance?

Mutcer · September 15, 2012, 2:24am

Many of the Christians I’ve met say their afterlife is to be far more glorious than their temporal life. Many of these same Christians also claim they’re absolutely certain they will have this wonderful afterlife after their temporal life is done. If this is true, then why do these same Christians go to such great lengths - by doing things like buying medical insurance - to ensure that their temporal life lasts as long as possible. If they truly believed these things about their afterlife, wouldn’t it make more sense for them to not buy medical insurance and give the money to their church?

As actions speak much stronger than words, behavior like this strongly suggests Christians aren’t being sincere about their beliefs of the afterlife.

Moreno · September 15, 2012, 2:40am

Why don’t you ask those specific Christians. I have met very few Christians who are sure they are going to Heaven. Mostly also feel obligations to their families, iow to be healthy providers or parents, etc. And also most seem to have a sense that self-care is part of the expectation of God. I know the Christians you mention are out there, definitely, but you are likely asking people to speculate about the thinking of a subset of Christians. Since you actually meet this subset of Christians and so many of them that you feel you can generalize about all Christians - iow your sample must be large- you are much more likely to get a useful answer by talking to the very Christians you are claiming to meet and clearly have access to them.

Mr_Reasonable · September 15, 2012, 5:21am

In case they get a sickness that isn’t going to kill them, but that might hinder them from praying and what not.

felix_dakat · September 15, 2012, 6:08am

Right. Or why do many of them feel the need to carry guns? But, moreno is right. Not all Christians have life insurance and those that do may all have different reasons for their choices. For some, it may be a lack of faith as you suggest. “What would Jesus do” is the question the christian must ask himself/herself.

V-OutOfTheWilderness · September 15, 2012, 6:45am

Mat_6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

phyllo · September 15, 2012, 3:25pm

‘Live for today and don’t think about tomorrow’ deals with excessive fretting about the future.

It doesn’t work if literally applied :
No need to work, plant crops, dress wounds, brush teeth, educate yourself. No need to even eat, drink or sleep.

It quickly leads to suffering.

phyllo · September 15, 2012, 3:27pm

Medical insurance is one of the resources that God provides for human well-being.

phyllo · September 15, 2012, 3:32pm

Suicide and self martyrdom was a big problem for the early Christian church. They had to make it a taboo so people would not self destruct.

The most notable pro-suicide group was the Donatists, who believed that by killing themselves they could attain martyrdom and go to heaven. They were eventually declared heretics. Most early theologians of the Catholic Church considered suicide as murder and thus a mortal sin in the absence of circumstances that could mitigate the sinfulness of the act.

In the fifth century, St. Augustine wrote the book The City of God, in it making Christianity’s first overall condemnation of suicide. His biblical justification for this was the interpretation of the commandment, “thou shalt not kill”, as he sees the omission of “thy neighbor”, which is included in “thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”, to mean that the killing of oneself is not allowed either.[1]. The rest of his reasons were from Plato’s Phaedo.

In the sixth century, suicide became a religious sin and secular crime. In 1533, those who committed suicide while accused of a crime were denied a Christian Burial. In 1562, all suicides were punished in this way. In 1693, even the attempt of suicide became an ecclesiastical crime, which could be punished by excommunication, with civil consequences following. In the 13th century Thomas Aquinas vilified suicide as an act against God and as a sin for which one could not repent. Civil and criminal laws were enacted to discourage suicide, and as well as denying a proper burial and degrading the body. Property and possessions of the deceased and their family were confiscated.[2][3]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_suicide

Early Jewish/Christian Struggles

During the early years of Christianity, many believers chose suicide over the difficult life of religious persecution. In fact, some early Christian writers maintained that a self-chosen death was a goal for the genuinely pious to aspire. The number of Christian martyrs and mass suicides rose so quickly that the ruling Jewish faction decided to forbid eulogies and public mourning for those who died by their own hand. This action began the stigmatization of suicide in Judeo-Christian culture. The first church-led condemnation of suicide occurred when Jewish leaders refused to allow the bodies of Christian suicide victims to be buried in hallowed ground. The few Christian condemnations of suicide came from the notion that suicide was to be despised because it was the action of the betrayer of Jesus. Thus, suicide developed a “guilt by association” because of Judas’ death by hanging.

Christian Condemnation

The first Christian to publicly denounce suicide as a sin was St. Augustine in the 4th Century. The basis of Augustine’s condemnation was the ubiquitous acts of suicide among Christians. Augustine’s influence on church doctrine resulted in a series of conciliar developments. In 305AD, the Council of Guadix purged from the list of martyrs all who had died by their own hand. Using the pretext of piety, the 348AD Council of Carthage condemned those who had chosen self death for personal reasons and the 363AD Council of Braga condemned and denied proper burial rites for all known suicides. Although meant as a preventative measure, Church condemnation festered the stigma introduced by Jewish authority years earlier. The act of suicide became immersed in shame and fear, remaining so for the next nine decades. In the 13th century Thomas Aquinas fortified the Church’s official position against suicide. Unlike Augustine, who acted to quell the surge of suicide among Christians, Aquinas was motivated by a need for intellectual understanding. Aquinas completed a comprehensive and systematic review of Christian theology, entitled Summa Theologiae. In this work, Aquinas vilified suicide as an act against God (much like Socrates) and denounced suicide as a sin for which one could not repent. Aquinas’ admonition resulted in civil and criminal laws to discourage suicide.

crouchfoundation.org/history-of-suicide.html

anon · September 15, 2012, 3:37pm

I have no problem with your post in general, but this strikes me as highly unusual. What kind of Christians do you know? Unitarians maybe? My experience is mostly with fundamentalists, who seem to take the protestant “you are saved by your faith” thing in a very black and white kind of way - i.e. you either have faith or you don’t. I’ve never met a fundamentalist who claimed to be unsure of his or her own salvation. Such a claim would be quite dramatic in the context of the church. It would be like doubting that Jesus saves even sinners, or even people who have moments of doubt. Though according to this paradigm, if you are a believer in general but you happen to die during a moment of doubt… must you then suffer eternal torment in hell?

I’m afraid I may have just given Mutcer a new thread topic idea.

Mutcer · September 15, 2012, 5:43pm

Moreno:

Mutcer:

Many of the Christians I’ve met say their afterlife is to be far more glorious than their temporal life. Many of these same Christians also claim they’re absolutely certain they will have this wonderful afterlife after their temporal life is done. If this is true, then why do these same Christians go to such great lengths - by doing things like buying medical insurance - to ensure that their temporal life lasts as long as possible. If they truly believed these things about their afterlife, wouldn’t it make more sense for them to not buy medical insurance and give the money to their church?

As actions speak much stronger than words, behavior like this strongly suggests Christians aren’t being sincere about their beliefs of the afterlife.

Why don’t you ask those specific Christians.

Since actions speak louder than words, this wouldn’t accomplish much. They’ll never acknowledge it, but their certainty that they’re going to heaven isn’t as great as they portray it to be.

Interesting point. The Christians who proclaim with certainty that they’re going to heaven but then do everything they can to prolong their temporal life actually do a disservice to Christians in general.

Mutcer · September 15, 2012, 5:44pm

Please give me an example of a sickness which would prevent a person from praying.

phyllo · September 15, 2012, 5:47pm

Since the judgement is to be fair and just, a moment of doubt would only count as small deduction on your score.

anon · September 15, 2012, 5:49pm

And yet a moment of sincere repentance (i.e. the thief on the cross) yields eternal bliss? I mean if that’s the story, then fine. That’s the story and it leans towards the positive.

Mutcer · September 15, 2012, 5:49pm

felix dakat:

Mutcer:

Many of the Christians I’ve met say their afterlife is to be far more glorious than their temporal life. Many of these same Christians also claim they’re absolutely certain they will have this wonderful afterlife after their temporal life is done. If this is true, then why do these same Christians go to such great lengths - by doing things like buying medical insurance - to ensure that their temporal life lasts as long as possible. If they truly believed these things about their afterlife, wouldn’t it make more sense for them to not buy medical insurance and give the money to their church?

As actions speak much stronger than words, behavior like this strongly suggests Christians aren’t being sincere about their beliefs of the afterlife.

Right. Or why do many of them feel the need to carry guns? But, moreno is right. Not all Christians have life insurance and those that do may all have different reasons for their choices. For some, it may be a lack of faith as you suggest. “What would Jesus do” is the question the christian must ask himself/herself.

Would Jesus buy himself health insurance if he was certain that after he died he would go to heaven? I’d guess most Christians would say “yes”, but wouldn’t be able to explain the logic or reason behind such a decision.

I think the human survival instinct far outweighs the confidence (however strong it is) that they’re going to heaven after death. That’s probably why they buy health insurance. But do they actually weigh the pros vs. cons of this?

Mutcer · September 15, 2012, 5:51pm

Medical Insurance isn’t provided by a god. It’s provided by humans.

anon · September 15, 2012, 5:55pm

Mutcer:

felix dakat:

Mutcer:

Many of the Christians I’ve met say their afterlife is to be far more glorious than their temporal life. Many of these same Christians also claim they’re absolutely certain they will have this wonderful afterlife after their temporal life is done. If this is true, then why do these same Christians go to such great lengths - by doing things like buying medical insurance - to ensure that their temporal life lasts as long as possible. If they truly believed these things about their afterlife, wouldn’t it make more sense for them to not buy medical insurance and give the money to their church?

As actions speak much stronger than words, behavior like this strongly suggests Christians aren’t being sincere about their beliefs of the afterlife.

Right. Or why do many of them feel the need to carry guns? But, moreno is right. Not all Christians have life insurance and those that do may all have different reasons for their choices. For some, it may be a lack of faith as you suggest. “What would Jesus do” is the question the christian must ask himself/herself.

Would Jesus buy himself health insurance if he was certain that after he died he would go to heaven? I’d guess most Christians would say “yes”, but wouldn’t be able to explain the logic or reason behind such a decision.

I think the human survival instinct far outweighs the confidence (however strong it is) that they’re going to heaven after death. That’s probably why they buy health insurance. But do they actually weigh the pros vs. cons of this?

Jesus had an occupation - he was a carpenter. Isn’t an occupation the same thing as insurance? I mean, assuming he saved some money. As a religious leader, his insurance was obviously the support of his followers. I believe Jesus wanted to live, if only to have enough time to present his teachings. In order to live, you have to do certain things. It’s just practical, and it doesn’t necessarily (though in practice it’s difficult to disentangle) mean that one is attached to life in the sense which he preached against with the whole “be like the lilies of the field” thing.

phyllo · September 15, 2012, 7:44pm

A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says “get in, get in!” The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause “God will grant him a miracle.”

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, “I don’t know what you’re complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter.”

Just saying.

Mutcer · September 15, 2012, 9:10pm

phyllo:

A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says “get in, get in!” The religous man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause “God will grant him a miracle.”

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, “I don’t know what you’re complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter.”

Just saying.

The three boats and the helicopter weren’t sent by St. Peter and/or God. They were sent by humans.

Mr_Reasonable · September 15, 2012, 9:48pm

Laryngitis and alzhiemers.

Moreno · September 15, 2012, 9:51pm

anon:

I have no problem with your post in general, but this strikes me as highly unusual. What kind of Christians do you know? Unitarians maybe? My experience is mostly with fundamentalists, who seem to take the protestant “you are saved by your faith” thing in a very black and white kind of way - i.e. you either have faith or you don’t. I’ve never met a fundamentalist who claimed to be unsure of his or her own salvation. Such a claim would be quite dramatic in the context of the church. It would be like doubting that Jesus saves even sinners, or even people who have moments of doubt. Though according to this paradigm, if you are a believer in general but you happen to die during a moment of doubt… must you then suffer eternal torment in hell?

I’m afraid I may have just given Mutcer a new thread topic idea.

I actually have met fundmentalists who were God fearing and did not take it for granted and seemed to instill the idea that their children should not remotely take it for granted. Hell seemed to be an ongoing potential threat in sermons and in general. That said, yes, the ones who were sure, tended to be ‘saved’ and that was precisely the ‘some’ I was thinking of. I am sure some Catholics and other kinds of Protestants and Orthodox, etc., also are sure, some sure act like it.

But most Christians I’ve met do not think it is a sure thing, or at least are not willing to say it out loud even if that is the vibe much of the rest of the time.