So how is it you believe you have reincarnated , you mean you have lived time and time again , did this entail punishments and rewards for your actions?
I just thought you might like this , not saying it proves anything conclusively , just that it is scientific support for intelligent design and concept . See what you think .
Actually thats a good name for an interior design company "Intelligent design & concept ltd "
Anyway , some good links , check them out . I agree with what you are saying essentially , most of religion is crap , but there are other perspectives .
As for is there a god or not , I think there is something intelligent , although I see what you mean , it also seems ridiculous to think that when you consider evolution and the way people are .
But to be honest I dont really bother about that question too much . Im just happy right now to be content and finding amusement in simple things. Women , money , drink , travelling , music , keeping fit .
Especially women !
There was an embarressing strory I read about a preist somewhere in a bid to help save the church and promote a new , more sylish way of teaching christs word .
Advertising campaigns that were like beer ads , to make them cool " hey like christ understands you yeh … "
It was crap because I thought what these guys dont realize is that if there is a spirit , and a sort of designer of the world somewhere , then surely people by just coming together reflect that spirit.
It says in the bible man is made in gods image and likeness .
So surely the churches job is to simply put on good events , but not preach about christ . Should,nt the act of people coming together and doing good things actually BE christ ?
But the church dont get it .They want to " lull" people into going to church with live music , and fun things for kids , barbeques and other entertainment , but then hammer them with this medieval style doctrine .
I think they,re trying to be cool because they,re still uncool.
And as you say , a lot of people will be like " yeh the church is great , I never realized you could come down and listen to jazz and have a sandwhich , and I,ve come to accept christ dont you know "
A lot of them are simple , and cant think for themselves .
[quote="Disciple of light"So how is it you believe you have reincarnated , you mean you have lived time and time again , did this entail punishments and rewards for your actions?[/quote]
again your touching an area, where anything I say will be construed as being made up. Even those who spend countless hours in meditation seperating the veil of reality, never come close to understanding the mystery. How can I? In my current state of affairs, I’ve not enough time to devote to hours of meditation a day. I’m lucky if I can get any meditation in.
and that was exactly my point. There is no “right” view of god, because to know god is to be dead.
only those seeking will find the truth. If you don’t seek, you’ll find nothing.
but you can’t PROVE that. (skeptic in me) How do you prove that your view of god is more correct than the Muslim, christian view of god?
again, disagree. Ancient religions (hinduism, judaism - the two roots that remain today) were created to explain the world. They were created to act as a form of government.
Judaism and Hinduism at their very roots are VERY different. Judaism is sourced from Zorastrianism, Sumer religion and Egyptian religion. Hinduism is sourced from ancient polytheistic traditions of believing every element had a god behind it. It is also a very controlling religion that keeps you in your caste, and the only way to get ahead in life is to be good and reborn into a better caste.
Judaism has no heaven or hell, just Sheol. The idea of heaven and hell came from the greeks.
the point is, that not all paths are equal. And it’s harder to leave a path that you start from birth.
The need is satisfied by organized religion… it basically is like I said before. Compare the need to being thirsty, Organized Religion gives you a drop to sate you, and for some people that’s enough, they have no desire to grow spiritually beyond that. Now this could be as I said before, the people that tend to be skeptics, or seekers are “older” spiritually than those who don’t have those desires.
Religion is the result of these interpretations, and as interpretation must be filtered through previous experience, so are the truths that are reveled to man.
[/quote]
again disagree. Not all religions are created equally, and not all religions are equally wise. Even those who find spiritual enlightenment within an O.R., are still entrapped by the dogma of religion.
Language is a barrier through which the aspects of the spiritual cannot be fully explained. So the belief in religion all points to the same source, simply through different interpretations of this source.
When I stated that is was just an assumption as to why some search and others follow. Even if they “haven’t been around the block” so to speak, as a “older” soul, don’t you have a responsibility to help those around you achieve enlightenment?
as for “specific religions correspond to specific growth of the soul”.
I’d like to see you prove that.
What spiritual growth did Heaven’s Gate offer it’s members?
What spiritual growth comes of catholicism, in it’s purest form?
NONE. Not all religions or beliefs are created equal. We can justify which spiritual paths are wiser and which ones are folly.
This is what I agree it became but the caste system was derived from the Laws of Manu which was initially refelective of a deep psychological understanding of the relativity of human “being.” As with Christianity, experts of the day sunk their teeth into it and it became secularized into the caste system.
Jacob’s staircase depicting levels of understanding between heaven and earth we are capable of and the cooperation that would ensue on the basis of all the rungs on the ladder being necessary for the cause of freedom for humanity, was replaced by “whose got the bucks.”
“This is what I agree it became but the caste system was derived from the Laws of Manu which was initially refelective of a deep psychological understanding of the relativity of human “being.” As with Christianity, experts of the day sunk their teeth into it and it became secularized into the caste system.”
I have read the Laws of Manu from beginning to end twice and they are based on the skin color of the people involved. The Aryans found the Dravidians (a negroid type people) living in India when they invaded a long time ago. The lowest caste people are still the darkest types. If you watch Indian TV shows or movies you will see white people with blue eyes. You almost never see the dark people, but it is mostly them that you see in the US. They came here to get away from the caste system.
The Laws of Manu are one heinous order after the next.
I did. I cannot explain how something works, no more than a scientist can explain why an electron gets excited from electricity and moves through a solid mass. They’ve got a basic idea, but can in no way prove that’s what’s happening ATM.
Nick,
I haven’t read the Laws of Manu, but if Adlerian is correct it is no different from other religious systems.
Some of the bible is spiritually interesting, certainly more so than the mormon book and the quran. the book of job, and the existentialism of ecclesiastes. But, when someone hands you the book as a whole and says “christ is god, and only believing in him will you be spiritually and physically saved” the mind can do nothing but create a partition between enlightenment from the more enlightened passages and enslavement from the controlling passages.
adlerian,
So you don’t disagree with ANY of it? I find that hard to believe. While it may be good info, you will gain nothing from it unless your mind protests.
DoL,
Am I surprised? If I had posted the more enlightened passages of christ and said that christ is a good teacher, you’d no doubt agree with that.
Because the teacher says something wise once, doesn’t mean he’ll be eternally wise. Unless of course you strap god to his back.
If I say that you have been taking smart pills that means that I agree with what you are saying. It was logically presented.
Meanwhile, everyone show read the laws of Manu if you are interested in Indian culture. It is easily found on google. Anyway, the laws expose India for the bullshit inhumane culture that it is. It’s mostly racial discrimination that has been used to make a rigid enforced division of labor, via accusations that people that are in the castes because of their actions before they even were alive. Horrible!
First of all, scythekain, I truly like the way you think. Your skepticism excites me. I thank you for your discussion.
scythekain wrote:
Everyone seeks, just at their own levels of evolution. When individuals seek for pleasure, have no religion, and are considered heathans, they are still seeking. There search is that of a worldly nature. They are searching for sense experience, for it is fairly new to them. Spiritual experience is not yet of importance, because they havent had enough of the world.
Thats the beauty of it all, we cant. This is because they are all ways to go back to the source. Even the experience of living in itself is a way back to the source. Religion offers structure to this process. No view of God is more correct, they are equally important for those who it applies to. Regardless if you are born into it, or decide later in life to choose it, it is what applies to you at that time.
All religions attempt to explain something, and then offer instructions based upon this explanation. In this sense, all of them are the same. If one can accept the premise of an infinite source. Then all things, the world we live in and the universe, stem from and are this source simultaneously; because it can be no other way, and every explanation is referring to the same thing. Whether its focus is on that of the elements, nature, or the universe. Its all a part of the infinite source. The derivation of these explanations stem from interpretation, as all explanation does. These interpretations will always fall short of objective truth, for we dont obtain the ability to look at consciousness from outside itself, for all is consciousness. Its impossible to explain something objectively we are a part of. This is why its important to attempt to derive at an objective view as possible. Check out my thread here:http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=146751
This applies to what I said before. Some people have become satiated in their thirst for their world. They are “older” spiritually, and just as you put it before, have “been around the block.” The thirst never leaves, as I said it is inherent in our nature to have this urge to grow. It must first be satisfied through sense experience. Once it is, individuals will begin to look beyond the physical and search for more. I am willing to bet that your thirst for physical pleasures has in some way declined, and your search for the spiritual is what this is being replaced by. Organized religion gives those individuals who arent yet tired of the physical, the little drop they need of the spiritual.
This entrapment you speak of isnt a hinderance. I understand very well your position, for I once felt the same way as you do. I stepped outside of religion for awhile, and looked at them all in order to obtain objectivity. People have religious experiences in all religions. They are described in the same way, just interpreted in relation to their belief system. As I said before, every religion is just a way to the same end, ie. transition. This enlightenment offers the new journey of shedding away all of this subjective nature that still remains. This includes religion. There are different levels of enlightenment, there are those as I have just mentioned, who have to continue to shed much, but have this realization of oneness; and there are those who fall into this oneness completely. Inevitably becoming lost in this consciousness, not having any reminance of their previous self.
You are correct, as an older soul, you have the initiative to lead rather than follow. As a result, you will do so. But it is also important to realize that you can only live up to your level. As you have said, you are an older soul, but there is still much growth to be done. Your skepticism is a natural process of growth, for at some point one must begin to reject all that has been taught to him, and open up to finding the truth for themselves. Keep this in mind on your journey, for to be skeptic and completely identified with this skepticism, your journey will be stunted. It is very possible to be a skeptic ones entire life, not accepting anything; but where will this take you? One must have the open-mindedness to want to know the truth. The truth is inherent in us all. We always know it when we hear it. Thats why people at different stages of evolution hold on so diligently to their beliefs, it is indeed the truth to them, as it all has some elements of the objective truth in it. Your stage I believe can be described as sort of the middle ground between the paradox, for you are realizing things arent what they seem. The transition must be made to continue to seeing the paradox in full. Heavens Gates members did indeed grow from this experience, as all life is growth. Considering your assumption of an older soul, you should consider, if you have not already done so, the concept of reincarnation; for it coincides considerably with the idea of an older soul. Remember, if I can offer any advice at all, it would be to attempt to keep an open mind when suggestions are offered to you. This is a growth process, and your views will inevitably change for the better, even if it doesnt seem so. I applaud you in your growth. As you have noticed your growth, possibly you believe in a higher consciousness that you are growing towards. It is then, inevitable that this higher consciousness knows more than you, open up to it, and allow its knowledge to flow to you. Once again, I thank you for your time, and I hope you consider the purity in my efforts.
it would seem that both Nick and Adler are both correct, yet because of partitions created by following dogmas, even the most enlightened hindu or christian or muslim would still be bound to ridiculous rules like:
Again, you are considering it the same way as Christendom does with the modern Bible. You underestimate the capacity of experts to destroy meaning.
I presume this is offensive to you since without an appreciation for higher realities man’s consciousness is evolving towards you view everyone’s understanding as equal only differing in “education.”
However, whether it be philosophy or religion, there is this idea that some are inclined to become more open to higher influences having nothing to do with secular education. In Christianity, it is believed that there are different levels of understanding in the body of Christ. This understanding is not just knowledge but knowledge in the context of perspective made possible by the Spirit. This is unrelated to secular value systems. A person working as a salesman could be far more advanced then a CEO in the human sense while at a lesser rank in the secular sense or in the eyes of the “Great Beast.”
It seems that those with the drive for power are the most narrow minded so that any of these ancient concepts that appreciate different types of people as natural for our species are immediately altered to favor them on a secular level for the purpose of power and control thereby losing all its meaning. Worse yet, even now I imagine there are representatives of the thought police struck by the fact that I’m obviously a sick puppy for writing something like this, that are trying to find me so that I can be educated. I must learn to keep wigs, fake beards, and the like so as to avoid this compassion.
Some people have all the luck. They get to see gorgeous naked princesses and I’m stuck with the task of seeing fat naked emperors many believe to be fashionably clothed.
It is obvious to me how it has happened in the degeneration of Christianity into Christendom and there is no reason to think that the same hasn’t happened in the East.
You never . You say you have dream experience etc , you sound fairly certain about your own reincarnation experiences , so again , does your reincarnation involve punishment and reward ?
No I don’t think reincarnation involves punishment or reward…
One need only look at hinduism to see the problems of such a belief.
Floyd,
Skeptics of the world unite!
Do you think it’s possible to jump beyond your current level of evolution? (while you are alive).
The unsated search. I also call it the “search for new”. Even those that call themselves religious in capitalism, are subject to the “desires of the new”. (which I see you stated later on)
Maybe. What of those that are born into extravangce? Like for instance Paris Hilton. IMO, it’s just as hard to escape a life of extravagance as it is hardliner religion.
Then you get into grayer areas. Do we choose our form? or is it truly based on what we did in the past?
And what comes next? The continual evolution, you reach enlightenment. What now? sit around in heaven and become like the fat buddha? Or do we go to another realm? Earth Mark 2?
As I said before though, not every view of god is equal. (as you state later, the heavens gate members still learned something… what’s that, not to follow a Eunuch who looks crazy?) Not every view of spirituality will lead to enlightenment, and in fact I would say most are prohibitive.
All religions start out with a leader. Judaism, Moses; christianity, Christ; Islam, Mohammed; Mormons, Smith; Buddhism, Buddha; Scientology, Hubbard.
Some of these leaders had obvious better intentions than some of the other leaders. If we are to believe the Old Testament, Moses Killed 3000 people. Is that equal to when Jesus spoke the sermon on the mount?
so a religions significance of spiritual growth has a lot to do with who starts it, then who takes the ball and runs with it. With Christianity it was catholicism, and they largely destroyed the message, EVEN to this day.
You say that we can learn from the equally, I would strongly disagree.
this I disagree with also. When you are dreaming or meditating (which may be one and the same) you have the power to step outside of your own conscious bubble.
Alot of what we are is a process of how we were raised though. The born muslim stands zero to little chance of converting to christianity and vice versa. The most interesting people are those that are born into something and reject it immediately. Like it’s a poor fitting shoe. You can’t walk around in a poor fitting shoe.
The thirst for new, has declined. but I still use material possessions as do you, or else you wouldn’t be on this forum. In my mind it’s less about abstinence and more about moderation. Moderation is much easier to accomplish even for “young souls” than complete abstinence. From moderation you can eventually stop yearning for it at all.
Now whether all that happens in one lifetime or not is up for debate.
And your okay with that?
of course, otherwise they wouldn’t be attracted to the religion. If it sated nothing within them they would move on.
Be that as it may, it’s important to realize the danger of extremist religion. We state equality at our own peril to say that Islam is as wise as Buddhism when the Muslims are slaughtering buddhists, and the buddhists with their peaceful religion (if you follow the tenets, and which they were born into) do not fight back.
ask yourself if every religion is equal and it’s situation that causes violence.
where are all the buddhist and christian suicide bombers?
Some beliefs (this is going to sound extremely cruel, fair warning.) don’t deserve to stick around. I think it was a good thing that the government stopped Waco when they did, look at what one of those followers (mcveigh) was able to accomplish.
I also think that had circumstances been slightly different we would not have mormonism today. The only reason we do is because Joe Smith was martyred. Of course one could say christ was the ultimate martyr.
Not all those who have the inclination to lead, do so with the wisdom of age. Again, look above at what I’ve pointed out. It’s not so much about leading as it is about guiding.
you must first empty your cup, before you can ask for more tea.
as I said before though, without a clean cup as well, the new tea will be tainted.
“you wouldn’t pour new wine into an old wine skin”
I agree with some of what you are saying… I think you need to think about the equality of religions though. Not all religions were created equally, and it’s important to teach that. err, offer guidance on that. And I think that even though you get spiritual tap from say, heaven’s gate, it’s a dead end path. (quite literally).
Please remove head from ass and read the actual laws for yourself instead of what someone else wrote for you to read. The passage that you posted, again, made no sense. How could the author “know” how good the “original” laws were if they don’t exist?
The fact that a skeleton exists indicates that more is known and hidden than what lies on the surface. As in Christianity, there is more known than what exists on the surface. It is just not interesting accept for those that have come to sense its value.
Why shouldn’t the Laws of Manu have suffered the same fate as Christianity through these “improvements” established by Great Beast sanctioned “experts?”
Actually this degeneration is necessary on the cultural surface lacking in consciousness. It follows the same cyclical patterns as does everything else in nature so it becomes its opposite. This is why the real teaching exists underneath the domain of experts. Still water runs deep and the essence of all these religions flourish in its depths.
Indeed you have been doing a lot of thinking, and as a result created a lot of thinking for me to do. I thank you once again.
scythekain wrote:
Im not completely sure if I understand your question. I mean we grow and evolve everyday. I think what you are referring to is the possibility of going beyond our possibility of growth in this lifetime, which I would have to say no.
Ha! I like these questions. Extremely difficult to explain and even more so difficult to comprehend.
The conversations in this thread surrounding the Indian caste system point to karma. If one examines the concept of karma, it makes a lot of sense. Paris Hilton, and others like her, I believe are definetely born into these extravagant lives as a result of their past lives. They have ultimately lived a life with some type of physical sacrifice, resulting in a new life with those things given back to them in abundance. At first glance this seems to possibly go against evolution because of the nature it produces in the individual, but oftentimes periods of what seems like recession are really growth. I mean we can never stop growing. I think that in Paris Hilton’s case, her extreme identification with wealth will hurt her much more in other areas of life, ultimately causing them to evolve as needed. Of course, as you said this is a grey area, but I believe it to have some merit. As far as choosing our form, I wouldnt think so. Reincarnation is all based on karma. Theres no other organized way to explain the differences in form, and various circumstances that derive from birth. I mean without reincarnation, the production of life, or God, or the source; however you refer to it, could indeed seem to be very cruel, for occurence of some people to enjoy better lives than others, is definetely unfair. But this idea of reincarnation satisfies the ideas of justice and equality.
After enlightenment is obtained, the soul becomes more and more absorbed in consciousness. Evolution doesnt end, we will continually grow. There are other realms or levels beyond this one. The concept of Nirvana I believe exist, and also realms beyond this. We wont be sitting around in heaven, but rather our duties will consist of being a part of this constant push of evolution for those below us. Once a new universe is established, it is possible that some of these highly evolved souls will be incarnated once again, to provide help for all the newer souls being incarnated into the new world. Providing for them laws and structure, concepts such as religion will begin again, in new ways. We truly do have spirits edging us along, as this also occured for our world in its beginning. I know this is hard to believe and hard to accept for I had a hard time believing myself in the beginning. Especially since this is a part of many religions. If you cant identify with this right now, I guarantee you these beliefs will come around again, presenting themselves in different ways. I dont even fully understand them, but slowly I am gaining more knowledge of these instances.
So as it seems. These notions of prohibition are only perceived. They seem prohibitive to you, because you are beyond these particular religions simplified understanding. Those individuals who identify with these religions, are specifically at the level of that which the religion pertains to. Just as you mentioned, those individuals who are born into a religion, and automatically reject it, are obviously beyond it. They have no use for it as it is, and search for something that is more so correlated with their level of evolution. All souls will inevitably connect with religion, or possibly the rejection of religion based on their level of evolution.
We cant learn from them equally as a whole, no. But those who do learn from them, learn from them. Experience and life is subjective, and each of us will bring to us a certain amount of experience based on our levels of evolution. The mind is the interpreting factor. Newer souls, think through the mind to go after these sense pleasures, and their experience will reflect that. More evolved souls, using the faculty of mind more, begin to enjoy mind pleasures, and attempt moderation with sense pleasures; their experiences correspond accordingly. Further evolved souls, grow from the level of attempting moderation, to ending altogether, no longer going after either sense pleasure, and accepting all that is. When the mind is no longer identified with experience, it becomes passive, as it no longer is used for these purposes. It is then that the awareness of the individual, which in itself is higher consciousness, connects back to experience with less of the mind to interfere as interpretation, and it is percieved as one and the same, hence the concept of “Oneness”. I know it seems as if I got off track here, but basically everything percieved near the end of sense experience is percieved as one, or equal. Everything that exist has its own purpose for its own subjective experiencers.
Yes, we can step outside of our “own” conscious bubble, but in fact all is consciousness. When in meditation, you are submerging into higher or more accurately speaking, wider consciousness. There is no existence of consciousness outside of complete consciousness, for all consciousness is infinite. It is the “source” I have been referring to when considering religions. We are simply a very small part of it.
This has been considered previously in my post. Because the world is the way it is, religion exist. Older souls are most often born into families in which younger souls reside. Often times these younger souls are our parents. Whatever religion corresponds to them, will be attempted to be taught to the more evolved child. He/She will reject this religion because he/she is beyond it in evolution. Considering for example, my position: I was raised in a Christian home. I went to church every sunday. I believed in God, and I accepted what I was told. But I always noticed the inconsistencies within the religion. I wasnt blind to the religion. When I got to college, I stopped going to church. Not simply as a rejection to the religion, but because of the lax attitude I had towards it. My second year of school, I decided to take a religious studies course, for I had already began to ponder on different religions and the relevance of them. I couldnt agree with there only being one way to find God, if he truly existed. That class opened my eyes to a lot, as it was inevitable for me to have taken it, in order to come to the realizations that I did. At that point in time, I was an agnostic, and I wasnt sure of what was what. I challeged everything, and I decided to figure the truth out for myself. I no longer wanted to take into consideration what I was being told from a church, because its obvious that all information that is passed down, has been tampered with. I turned to myself, and have been revealed many things. This is just where I was in my evolution. I was born and raised in Christianity, but later came to reject it, and look at other religions to follow. I then realized that I shouldnt follow any, for if God truly existed, he existed in me, and thats where I went for my information. Its important to realize, it is something outside of you that will trigger this realization of truth, and that there are certain experiences that will elicit the realization of truth, such as having a discussion on ILP for instance.
Indeed, this forum is for me considered a mind pleasure. For I come not only to learn, but also to give knowledge, as I truly want those to know what I do. This is a result of pride. But my pride has decreased impressively in the past few months. In observing some of my earlier post when arriving at ILP, I was here for the argument. I wanted to win, and make known my position, for I knew I was right. Now I am more sincere with my want to spread knowlege. For I wish not to argue with anyone, I wish not to win, I simply wish to convey my message. One may do what they will with the rest of the process.
For the younger souls, I definetely have reason to believe this process cant occur in one lifetime. But for older souls. It indeed can. In myself, I can see how I have gone through many stages. Stark greediness as a child, to more and more moderation. I then went through the beginnings of the ending of all pleasures, and now feel as if the end of that journey has arrived. I have much reason to believe that this process wont slow down for me, as I am only 21. I intend to reach realization, as it is now the only true desire I have constantly consciously flowing through my mind. There is no room for no others.
Not really. But if I provide them with more, they wont take it anyway. They arent thirsty enough. I think the key is to make them thirsty. I would attempt to speed up evolution, through the providing of knowledge of who we truly are from the beginning. I think that if children are taught, as they are in religion the truths of the world in unsimplified terms, then evolution as a whole will begin to speed up. Because this will be all they know from the beginning, they will make sense of their world with it. Even though they may be younger souls, they will know their purpose; and inevitably rise to that purpose much quicker, because they know the meaning and goal of life.
Your missing the point. It isnt the religious experience that attracts them. This is a result of following the religion. These experiences then provide more meaning to life in relation to the religion for the individuals, causing them to push further to reach the ideals of the religion, inevitably pushing along their evolution. Can you see the significance now? Even though it may not help push you along, because you have already passed what it can give to you, it can help those who have yet to reach your point along.
If you can accept karma and reincarnation, then you can see that even though these religions cause problems, and I agree; I think it might be better without them around, they still serve a purpose in the justice of life and ironically the equality of all things. People who end their lives pay dearly after they die, it is believed that karmic debt is received in the form of reliving the moments up to suicide and the suicide itself over and over until the actual time of their natural death would have occured. Beyond this, they will recieve positive karmic debt for their loyalties to their God. They have sacrificed their life for their God, and will be paid royally, as a life seemingly weighs heavy in the realms existence.
You are correct, excuse my language.
Exactly, this is why its so important to maintain an openmind, for otherwise you are tainted and unclean with previous knowledge, that will inevitably cause you to not be able to recieve some of the most important knowledge one needs for this journey. But it all must come in due time.
Im not sure if you have, but I think you should really research reincarnation and karma, for accepting these dogmas will automatically enduce the realization of equality for all. I mean everything is relative and subjective, our knowledge that we receive must be as well, and if we are receiving it, it must inevitably apply to us. Everything is equal in its own terms.
I can’t accept karmic retribution, especially your form of it.
To think that, the idiots that flew into the WTC will get rewarded because they did it for their god? Completely ludicrous. I’m all for spiritual expansion, but thinking such things about the nature of the universe is spiritual regression, and does nothing to speak of the value of life, and the danger and inequality of religion.
Saying that someone who dies for god, in an act of explosive force will be retributed? How can you justify such a statement?
I think we can grow beyond our limits within one life time and learn more. I think it’s not even learning more, it’s learning what we came here to learn.
Like the Paris Hilton Example. I think she chose the challenge of overcoming materialism.
So how does my example deal with suicide and killing others?
I have no idea. I would think that unless there is some sort of “god”, karmic retribution wouldn’t make any sense. Who or what would decide who is worthy of what type of retribution?
No it doesn’t, it’s system of racial denigration. Look at my quote from the law of manu above.
Strongly disagree. I don’t think hitler was growing when he decided to kill the jews, and I don’t think Suicide bomber are growing when they blow themselves and others around them up.
I’d be willing to believe in Karma if the people mentioned above (killers, suicide bombers) got punished for their actions and not rewarded.
perception is only a neurological function remember? We base what we see on what we know, and what we believe. If one religion uses strict rules and dogmas to control it’s members, or tells them that by blowing themselves up they can get to heaven, how is that not spiritually prohibitive to growth?
I think your stuck on the concept of all ideas and belief systems are equal. There’s no way such logic can be applied. (or belief for that matter).
Some beliefs are patently more dangerous than others. Some spiritually regressive, some physically. some both.
It’s absurd IMO, to claim that the repressive caste system of hinduism is equal to it’s successor buddhism.
I think I would refer to it as levels of consciousness, and when we leave our bubble of consciousness it’s to a level of un-consciousness. I think there are several possibilities though:
Quantum Physics is right and there are parallel universes and occasionally in a dream you warp to your dopplegangers body. Things are similiar but slightly different in these dreams.
We have the ability to see into the future (within our life times). These dreams are clear and when the event happens you get the strongest deja vu you’ve ever had and you remember the dream clearly.
We have the ability to see into other people’s lives or we have past lives. These are dreams where you “are someone else”, a farmer, an actor, a submarine pilot etc.
