Loren: "This logic is backwards. You can look up ANYTHING on the internet. So we should learn nothing? So if we had to memorize either city capital or OUR RIGHTS as a citizen - one should memorize city capitals? "
You miss the entire point. The object behind the memorization of states and their capitals is to prepare the brain for a greater type of learning. It is a exercise for the brain to expand the power of retention. The Bill of Rights is not only a long document (by a third grader’s standards) but is filled with words that a third-grader cannot be expected to understand at that level. I think that memorizing the Bill of Rights would be a pretty good exercise, as well, just for someone that is a little older.
Learn nothing? I do not understand where you think that I made the implication that we should learn nothing. You have to have a general concept of the history of this country, know what The Bill of Rights is, and have some general concept of its usefulness and applicability to the individual to even know what it is you are looking for. That would be an example of the basic stuff that you think schools should teach. You teach someone what the Bill of Rights is and why it exists, if anyone needs to quote it verbatim, they know where to look.
Loren: "Yes calculus is useless for the general public. I’m not talking about the futility of calculus. I’m talking about the futility of teaching calculus to the general public. The general public does not need to know calculus or cell wall of plants. Only very specialized individuals need to know either. "
Again, there is a lot more to Calculus than what is taught at the High School level, otherwise, it would not be existent at the college level. The point is that it gives you a taste of what Calculus is, the basics of Calculus, if you will. Once again, you have failed to show me any circumstance where Calculus is needed to graduate from a public school, before I continue in this specific vein (Calculus) I will require such proof.
Loren: “You stated that we find cures as adults. Not as High school students. High school students aren’t finding cures for diseases. It’s on the college and beyond level. To figure out whether that individual wants to learn more biology or calculus for engineering all they need is cursory knowledge on the subject. Once they figure that out they can specialize in college. Not general education what it’s useless for most of the general public.”
High school students may not be finding cures (except for prodigies) but it is high school where they learn the basics about the usefulness of plants for curative purposes and get the idea that they wish to pursue using plants to find cures.
Cursory knowledge? What is a High School class if not a class on cursory knowledge?
Did you take Composition in High School? Most assuredly, are you a professional author/teacher/professor based on your having taken this class in High School, no. Apparently, you only picked up cursory knowledge.
Loren: "They are forced into several levels. For example we’ll take your experience. Your highest level of math was Algebra 2. What real world applications are you using what you learned here? Have you ever had to use quadratic equations and factoring polynomials in your life other than for a class? I’ll make an assumption - no? So it was a pointless class.
Foreign language is required as well. No one needs to learn how to speak Mandarin in school. But speaking mandarin is still more applicable than Algebra 2. So I would favor learning a language over upper level math. Even still, it isn’t necessary. "
Your assumption is wrong, I use Algebra all of the time, anytime I need to determine an unknown number or value I break out some sort of Algebraic equation. Obviously, I have not used every single aspect of Algebra taught to me in High School, but I have used many of them and am better for having taken the course.
Foreign language may not be necessary, but I think that learning a foreign language is certainly beneficial. It promotes open-mindedness and a knowledge of cultures other than your own. You know the redneck that sits in his sofa on the front lawn and hollers, “WHOOOO-HOOOO, Ahhhh-Muuuurrrr-Ehhhhhh-Kaaaaaa,” every time George W. Bush comes on his TV? That guy probably is not aware of other cultures, and as such, is incapable of considering the possibility that Americans are not right in all that they do by merit of being Americans.
Loren: “Calculus is just an example. We can use any example for upper level courses that we are forced to take - we can just replace calculus for algebra 2, set theory, trigonometry, geometrical proofs, etc. All irrelevant subjects. So if you did not take calculus you probably were forced to take one of these.”
That’s an easy statement for you to make now that I have stated that I took Algebra II already! Although, I was not forced into taking Algebra II, or any of the others. In fact, without Algebra II, I could not have taken Trigonometry or Calculus had I wanted to. In place of Algebra II, by the way, I could have taken Business Math, which is just a slightly higher level of basic math.
Loren: "They aren’t helping individuals get a real idea what they want to do with their lives. There are a lot of other topics they could be teaching that would give individuals a better sense at what they want to do. For example, after taking Algebra 1 - were you pretty certain you were not going to pursue a future career in mathematics? So why be forced to continue along this path? "
Again, I was not forced to continue along this path. I chose to take Algebra II. That fact notwithstanding, another benefit of taking higher level mathmatics is to expand your mind and challenge yourself. For the record, my degree is in Business Administration-Economics, so I would say that I pursued a career path where algebra is necessary.
Loren: “Computer classes aren’t irrelevant courses. Perhaps you are confused. Irrelevant subjects are any subject that is not applicable to the majority of the students taking it. Computers are very applicable in LIFE to almost every individual. So it’s a relevant course. An irrelevant course would be upper level stuff like learning java programming. But java programming is NOT required because it is NOT useful to 99% of the population to learn java. And same with algebra 2.”
To avoid further confusion, please read my statements more than once, if you must. I never said directly, nor did I in any way insinuate that computer classes are irrelevant courses. In fact, up top you even suggested that I would have us learn nothing except for how to navgate the Internet. I either believe that computer classes accomplish everything or nothing in your eyes, so you should at least pick one belief for the purpose of this discussion. What I said was, computer science and information technology were not as advanced in the 1980’s as they are today, as a result, there were less computer classes in the 1980’s. Today there are many computer classes because computers are relevant in life.
And if you are basing your course selection on classes that are, “Useful to 99% of the population,” which I take to mean directly relevant to 99% of us as adults, then we can eliminate almost every class we take post grade 4, graduate, “High School,” at the age of 9, and be a nation full of driveling idiots to an even greater extent than we currently are.
Or, maybe you can draw out these classes that are relevant to 99% of us. For instance, maybe we should take an entire semester in fifth grade and just have one big class where we break down the concept of basic subtraction, we’ll just spend six months doing nothing but subtraction. Multiplication is out of the question, though, I don’t believe that 99% of Americans know how to multiply, so we will have to remove that from the curriculum.