Why do you like life?

[jethy]

You aren’t special.

You could die any minute from now.
Meteor strike, heart attack, you name it.

Rest assured that your life will eventually come to an end.

I know that concept doesn’t sit well with you.

You think there’s inherent meanings in things.
That life has some ultimate destination.

You’re CULTurally deluded.

You were not the same person you were 7 years ago.

Your memories are all you have.

All the pleasure you’ve ever experienced was a negation of discomforts.

You are aware of roughly 50,000 interactions that you’ve had in your lifetime.
75% on average of which are built out of negative experiences.
Which equates to post-traumatic stress disorder.

Everything that happened in your life is just a story.

There is no past.

There is no future.

Just the ever-present now.
Everything is constantly changing.
Nothing is permanent

There is no afterlife.

There is no god.

There is no utopia.

And you’ve already lost.
No matter how big you brain is,

You can try dressing the pig up.
Strap some wings on it.
Give it a coat of lipstick.
But it still won’t fly.
Or be fuckable.
Because the reality is.

Throughout the history of this planet, only a small percentage of life has been doing this contemplating the universe thing, and having high-minded conversations about how beautiful life is and how wonderful their experiences have been. But life isn’t anything like this, it’s a replicating DNA molecule that has been reproducing and consuming itself for approximately 4 billion years.

Does it have a purpose? No, it was just an accident of biology, which perpetuated all these different manifestations of life.

And what are we? We are simply puppets animated by the non-benign chemistry that has been pulling our strings for hundreds of thousands of years.

You think you have a self, a solitary unity self with a fixed identity? Well, sorry to break it to you, but you don’t. Your subjective experiences are just the end result of electrochemical activity in your brain.

Our species has become so deluded from reality that we can’t even see the only thing which is meaningful - sentience - that which we take for granted. None of this material has any real value, it’s all just perceptual, the value is inside ourselves. The conscious welfare of all sentient beings is what matters.

We still create sentient beings that are capable of experiencing pain and suffering for our own edification. We haven’t demonstrated any capacity to solve this hate problem, we think we can somehow take control of nature when we are the very part of the problem we seek to solve.

We will not be able to control the technology that we are currently busy designing and experimenting with. We hope that this will lead humanity to inevitable moral progress. It won’t.

You can continue to fill your head with daydreaming and nonsensical wishful, hopeful thinking and talk about how beautiful and joyous your DNA ride is, or you can recognise that it isn’t a ride at all, just a stupid molecule creating biological experiments.

Ask yourself this question - Which would I prefer?

Meaningless and amoral universe with a cycle of unnecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on the present generation by the generation preceding it due to insane and deluded animals mistakenly believing that they are bestowing something precious - sentience - that needs to be perpetuated at any costs.

Meaningless and amoral universe with no unecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on future generations by the present generation.

Pretty tough decision to make isn’t it?

[Tab]

Lol.

Our species has become so deluded from reality that we can’t even see the only thing which is meaningful - sentience - that which we take for granted. None of this material has any real value, it’s all just perceptual, the value is inside ourselves.

You’d never get water in the shape of a glass if there was no glass.

Question. What would an immaterial sentience think about…?

[Trajicomic]

@jethy

You aren’t special.

Define “special”.

@jethy

You could die any minute from now.
Meteor strike, heart attack, you name it.

Oh shit, a nihilist, run!!!

Let me guess, you’re a 20 year old male?

[Dglgmut]

Tab: Awareness is awareness of something. I know that was your point, but I just think that’s the clearest way to put it. Ayn Rand’s words, not mine.

And this special talk… Like Trajicomic asked, what exactly is special, then?

If nothing is special, then why would we do anything? You obviously believe some things are special, because you make choices.

[volchok]

@Trajicomic

Oh shit, a nihilist, run!!!

There are a lot of nihilists that are perfectly happy. Usually nihilism refers to the fact that there is no objective meaning. Not that there isn’t any meaning at all. Hence the “create your own meaning” stuff.

Then again the reason nihilism bugs you is probably because you think life is god’s gift.

[Amorphos]

Meaningless and amoral universe with a cycle of unnecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on the present generation by the generation preceding it due to insane and deluded animals mistakenly believing that they are bestowing something precious - sentience - that needs to be perpetuated at any costs.

Meaningless and amoral universe with no unecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on future generations by the present generation.

I’ll take the bondage sex, unnecessary pain for sexual gratification.

More sensibly, life is something I am lumbered with and I have no choice if I have or like it or not [currently][not meaning that I cannot take it away] . Given that I don’t know what death would be like, I cannot know if I’d prefer that, but feel quite sure I wouldn’t be able to know what its like in order to even arrive at a judgement upon it ~ once dead.

In short I have no way to make a judgement concerning both life and death.

There are lots of things in life I like though, and nothing in death, my only chance to like is thus in life.

[Tab]

Tab: Awareness is awareness of something. I know that was your point, but I just think that’s the clearest way to put it. Ayn Rand’s words, not mine.

No, I don’t think that’s the whole of the story. Think of all the things that you are aware of right now. Can you count them…? Sentience is a lot about ignoral, and the criteria governing what is ignored. And the generation of narrative from what remains. It is negative space which defines us, and immaterial sentience, would lack that criteria. It would dissolve, not that it would ever coalesce in the first place.

[Amorphos]

Think of all the things that you are aware of right now. Can you count them…?

If you counted them you’d be using further processes, the same things as what you are aware of but supplanted by the new criterion.

There are for sure many aspects of the brain which we are not aware of, but there is nothing we are aware of that we otherwise are not aware of ~ just listen to what that sounds like!

[Tab]

If you counted them you’d be using further processes, the same things as what you are aware of but supplanted by the new criterion.

No, I meant it quite literally, physical sensation wise, count all the things you are aware of. Now count all the things that really don’t matter. And wonder why they don’t matter. And to what exactly they do not matter to.

[Calrid]

@jethy

You aren’t special.

You could die any minute from now.
Meteor strike, heart attack, you name it.

Rest assured that your life will eventually come to an end.

I know that concept doesn’t sit well with you.

Sits fine with me, denying it would be futile.

You think there’s inherent meanings in things.
That life has some ultimate destination.

No I don’t.

You’re CULTurally deluded.

Perhaps.

You were not the same person you were 7 years ago.

Your memories are all you have.

True. But I am not expecting my memories to be golden and hold a special secret, some of them are good and some are bad.

All the pleasure you’ve ever experienced was a negation of discomforts.

You are aware of roughly 50,000 interactions that you’ve had in your lifetime.
75% on average of which are built out of negative experiences.
Which equates to post-traumatic stress disorder.

If they were 75% negative then you have a bad attitude to life, even the bad times give some perspective.

Everything that happened in your life is just a story.

There is no past.

There is no future.

Just the ever-present now.
Everything is constantly changing.
Nothing is permanent

True too, but why is that an issue?

There is no afterlife.

There is no god.

All the more reason to appreciate the finite time we have.

There is no utopia.

And you’ve already lost.
No matter how big you brain is,

You can try dressing the pig up.
Strap some wings on it.
Give it a coat of lipstick.
But it still won’t fly.
Or be fuckable.
Because the reality is.

Yeah you should accept that, things just are, it’s much easier to accept things without deluding yourself. If I’ve lost I’m going to go down with a smile anyway and a finger raised to life.

Throughout the history of this planet, only a small percentage of life has been doing this contemplating the universe thing, and having high-minded conversations about how beautiful life is and how wonderful their experiences have been. But life isn’t anything like this, it’s a replicating DNA molecule that has been reproducing and consuming itself for approximately 4 billion years.

Does it have a purpose? No, it was just an accident of biology, which perpetuated all these different manifestations of life.

And what are we? We are simply puppets animated by the non-benign chemistry that has been pulling our strings for hundreds of thousands of years.

You think you have a self, a solitary unity self with a fixed identity? Well, sorry to break it to you, but you don’t. Your subjective experiences are just the end result of electrochemical activity in your brain.

Our species has become so deluded from reality that we can’t even see the only thing which is meaningful - sentience - that which we take for granted. None of this material has any real value, it’s all just perceptual, the value is inside ourselves. The conscious welfare of all sentient beings is what matters.

Purpose I don’t care for, sentience I do, and I appreciate it for what it is and no more.

We still create sentient beings that are capable of experiencing pain and suffering for our own edification. We haven’t demonstrated any capacity to solve this hate problem, we think we can somehow take control of nature when we are the very part of the problem we seek to solve.

True, but nonetheless we exist and as long as we don’t spend our lives expecting miracles within that life time, we can be happy. There is something in any circumstance no matter how flawed. Expectation is something that too many people get invested in.

We will not be able to control the technology that we are currently busy designing and experimenting with. We hope that this will lead humanity to inevitable moral progress. It won’t.

You can continue to fill your head with daydreaming and nonsensical wishful, hopeful thinking and talk about how beautiful and joyous your DNA ride is, or you can recognise that it isn’t a ride at all, just a stupid molecule creating biological experiments.

Ask yourself this question - Which would I prefer?

Meaningless and amoral universe with a cycle of unnecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on the present generation by the generation preceding it due to insane and deluded animals mistakenly believing that they are bestowing something precious - sentience - that needs to be perpetuated at any costs.

Meaningless and amoral universe with no unecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on future generations by the present generation.

Pretty tough decision to make isn’t it?

No the decision is easy, I don’t care either way I am happy just being, no matter how hard it is, it’s better than nothing. I hope that future generations will find more, I don’t look at the world the way it is and think it is all that can be though. It’s a big universe and there’s a lot of time, I am happy enough to think that out there one day, somewhere will truly work in the vastness of space, it might even be us. I won’t beat myself up if it’s not.

[volchok]

That was a nice answer carlid even if incomplete and a bit simplistic.

[lizbethrose]

How about this, Volchok, for really short and really simplistic: I like life because it’s me–it’s my genetic structure and my electro- biological chemicals all arranged is a way that’s different from anyone else’s and no one else will ever duplicate them. Even if I were to have a clone, my memories and my reactions to them, my character traits, wouldn’t be cloned. I have very few expectation; but I’ve had a lot of rewards.

Besides, I couldn’t change having life, nor would I want to.

Welcome to ILP, jethy

[user6]

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. I guess I stick around for the better times.

[Innovice]

i can’t help it sometimes

youtube.com/watch?v=u_I9ld-oDTs

[loveissweet]

@jethy

You aren’t special.

Incorrect. Every single person is of a distinct and particular kind which is not evident in someone else.
There might be striking similarities amongst all humans, but the fact remains that each, individual person has unique aspects of their existence that don’t and can’t manifest in another fashion. Individuality is inherent.

I know that concept doesn’t sit well with you.

You don’t actually know that it doesn’t sit well with your reader; this is simply an assumption. It’s actually a concept that I embrace and utilize in my own personal development.

You think there’s inherent meanings in things.

Yes, there is inherent meaning in things. The simple fact that things exist in a particular manner carries with it inherent implications and meaning. That’s reality for you.

You were not the same person you were 7 years ago.

And I’m not the same person I was one minute ago. Constant state of change FTW.

Your memories are all you have.

Not completely accurate, but for the most part, indubitably.

All the pleasure you’ve ever experienced was a negation of discomforts.

This isn’t true. Pleasure exists by it’s own measure. We might, in our constant comparison of all experiences against each other, in our efforts to understand reality and make decisions as to how to influence reality, guided by our motivations, compare pleasurable experiences to discomforting ones, but this terminology, “negation of discomforts”, doesn’t represent how pleasure is actually created and experienced, nor how discomfort is actually created and experienced.

One could experience pleasure pleasurably regardless of whether or not you ever felt pain. The fact that almost all people have the capacity for experiencing both, and inevitably do so, and subsequently compare all of these experiences to form a broader perspective doesn’t mean that the two are juxtapositioned in negation to each other.

You are aware of roughly 50,000 interactions that you’ve had in your lifetime.
75% on average of which are built out of negative experiences.
Which equates to post-traumatic stress disorder.

Source?

Everything that happened in your life is just a story.

Now we’re dealing with loaded words. “Just” a story. If your intention is to project the idea that one’s life being a story is inferior to another standard, then it logically follows that you would also indicate what you are comparing this “story” to.

If life is just a story, then what’s the alternative? How else would the diminishing judgment “just, merely” have a basis?
Such a comparison without something else for it to be compared to is only evidence of emotional judgements by the writer.

Just the ever-present now.
Everything is constantly changing.
Nothing is permanent

This is definitely true, regarding the ever-present now and it’s state of constant change.

There is no afterlife.

There is no god.

Unsubstantiated conclusions.

And you’ve already lost.

lol This statement makes no sense. How could I have lost? I’m simply existing. Where does the concept of winning and losing come from in all that?

Throughout the history of this planet, only a small percentage of life has been doing this contemplating the universe thing, and having high-minded conversations about how beautiful life is and how wonderful their experiences have been. But life isn’t anything like this, it’s a replicating DNA molecule that has been reproducing and consuming itself for approximately 4 billion years.

You clearly contradict yourself. First, you describe, quite clearly, an aspect of reality (the fact that there is a small percentage of life that has been capable of contemplation of the universe and of life itself, the fact that there have been conversations regarding how beautiful life is and how wonderful their experiences have been. Then you say life isn’t anything like this.

Obviously, life actually is something like that, since you clearly describe lifeforms actually doing this.

The great thing about life, and about reality as a whole, is that there are many aspects to it. Many factors contributing to the same thing. Yes, life is DNA replicating itself. As an emergent phenomenon from this, it is also beings who find life to be beautiful and feel they have had wonderful experiences. They aren’t exclusive. They don’t nullify each other.

Does it have a purpose? No, it was just an accident of biology, which perpetuated all these different manifestations of life.

The word “accident” implies that there was some other intention for how things were to manifest, up until the accident. I can’t comprehend this point of view because it has no basis.
The question pertaining to purpose can’t be answered without further clarification because it is too vague. For the rest, the easiest way of making my point is to rewrite your statment for you: “It was biology”. 'Cause that’s the extent of things. Life is biology, life results from biology.

And what are we? We are simply puppets animated by the non-benign chemistry that has been pulling our strings for hundreds of thousands of years.

Horrible analogy. I understand the extent to which you wish to feature the chemical aspects of our existence. The evident thing, however, is that there is also a cognitive aspect to our existence, which belies your characterization of humans as puppets.

To move forward, where’s the basis for us to believe that cognition and chemistry are mutually exclusive?

You think you have a self, a solitary unity self with a fixed identity? Well, sorry to break it to you, but you don’t. Your subjective experiences are just the end result of electrochemical activity in your brain.

Your conclusion doesn’t negate the first part of your statement in the slightest. So what if one’s experiences are the end result of electrochemical activity in the brain? Does it also follow that the notion of a self, of a solitary, unified self, with a fixed identity, cannot exist as the result of electrochemical activity in the brain as well? How otherwise would it exist?

Not that I feel there is a “solitary, unified self with a fixed identity”, stated as such, but your statement didn’t demonstrate in the slightest that there isn’t.

You can continue to fill your head with daydreaming and nonsensical wishful, hopeful thinking and talk about how beautiful and joyous your DNA ride is, or you can recognise that it isn’t a ride at all, just a stupid molecule creating biological experiments.

Once again, you have provided absolutely no substantiation for the idea that one excludes the other. I see no reason to think that your idea has anything to do with the nature of reality. If anything, the sheer nature of the chemical realities of the universe and the way in which they can manifest complex, conscious beings strikes me as being pretty damn beautiful, and the opportunity to partake in all of this pretty damn joyous.

Meaningless and amoral universe with a cycle of unnecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on the present generation by the generation preceding it due to insane and deluded animals mistakenly believing that they are bestowing something precious - sentience - that needs to be perpetuated at any costs.

Meaningless and amoral universe with no unecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on future generations by the present generation.

Pretty tough decision to make isn’t it?

No, not really; in fact it’s not really a decision to be made at all. I prefer evolution, not “everything’s not perfect so we should just stop reproducing”.

[lizbethrose]

Brava, lis, and welcome.

I have a feeling, however, that jethy is a hen who deposits an egg on the clean clothes in the laundry basket, and then moves on. Except he’s probably a rooster. Equally valid. The rooster inseminates the egg before it’s laid–then leaves.

[volchok]

@jethy

You aren’t special.

I know.

@jethy

You could die any minute from now.
Meteor strike, heart attack, you name it.

I know and that sucks ass but I at the same time if you could be warned that you’re about to die, would you want to know?

@jethy

Rest assured that your life will eventually come to an end.

I know.

@jethy

I know that concept doesn’t sit well with you.

It doesn’t at all, but it’s part of life.

@jethy

You think there’s inherent meanings in things.
That life has some ultimate destination.

No, I don’t. I think there isn’t any intrinsic meaning or ultimate destination or grand plan.
I think there is subjective meaning and that’s about it.

@jethy

You were not the same person you were 7 years ago.
Your memories are all you have.

What is a person anyway?
Memories aren’t that great. We like to think that our memories are like a tape recorder but it doesn’t work that way. Memories are built, and it’s reaaaal easy to change someone’s memory ( a lot of studies have been done on that subject) no to mention the natural degradation of memories.

@jethy

There is no god.

I agree and that’s a good thing.

@jethy

You think you have a self, a solitary unity self with a fixed identity? Well, sorry to break it to you, but you don’t. Your subjective experiences are just the end result of electrochemical activity in your brain.

True.

I’m not sure if I like life or if life is a good thing. But I definitely have better reasons to doubt.

[Stoic_Guardian]

Your pathetic.

Don’t claim meaninglessness and the Truth at the same time.

I like life because I don’t come too negative conclusions to things that are impossible to know.

Now if you’re fool enough to think that the most negative and meaningless opinion on any givin question is the correct one, then that’s your own fault.

Your anti-messianic message isn’t a revelation, most of us here have heard it before, some agree and don’t care and others (like myself) simply don’t agree.

Have you killed yourself yet?

[Stoic_Guardian]

The largest hole in this entire setting you’ve built up is that most of the people here don’t fall into your parameters of how people think, so what does that say about the credibilty of the rest of you whining nihilistic-materliast nonsense.

In fact your existance contradicts your little speech.

[Blurry]

@loveissweet

@jethy

You aren’t special.

Incorrect. Every single person is of a distinct and particular kind which is not evident in someone else.
There might be striking similarities amongst all humans, but the fact remains that each, individual person has unique aspects of their existence that don’t and can’t manifest in another fashion. Individuality is inherent.

I know that concept doesn’t sit well with you.

You don’t actually know that it doesn’t sit well with your reader; this is simply an assumption. It’s actually a concept that I embrace and utilize in my own personal development.

You think there’s inherent meanings in things.

Yes, there is inherent meaning in things. The simple fact that things exist in a particular manner carries with it inherent implications and meaning. That’s reality for you.

You were not the same person you were 7 years ago.

And I’m not the same person I was one minute ago. Constant state of change FTW.

Your memories are all you have.

Not completely accurate, but for the most part, indubitably.

All the pleasure you’ve ever experienced was a negation of discomforts.

This isn’t true. Pleasure exists by it’s own measure. We might, in our constant comparison of all experiences against each other, in our efforts to understand reality and make decisions as to how to influence reality, guided by our motivations, compare pleasurable experiences to discomforting ones, but this terminology, “negation of discomforts”, doesn’t represent how pleasure is actually created and experienced, nor how discomfort is actually created and experienced.

One could experience pleasure pleasurably regardless of whether or not you ever felt pain. The fact that almost all people have the capacity for experiencing both, and inevitably do so, and subsequently compare all of these experiences to form a broader perspective doesn’t mean that the two are juxtapositioned in negation to each other.

You are aware of roughly 50,000 interactions that you’ve had in your lifetime.
75% on average of which are built out of negative experiences.
Which equates to post-traumatic stress disorder.

Source?

Everything that happened in your life is just a story.

Now we’re dealing with loaded words. “Just” a story. If your intention is to project the idea that one’s life being a story is inferior to another standard, then it logically follows that you would also indicate what you are comparing this “story” to.

If life is just a story, then what’s the alternative? How else would the diminishing judgment “just, merely” have a basis?
Such a comparison without something else for it to be compared to is only evidence of emotional judgements by the writer.

Just the ever-present now.
Everything is constantly changing.
Nothing is permanent

This is definitely true, regarding the ever-present now and it’s state of constant change.

There is no afterlife.

There is no god.

Unsubstantiated conclusions.

And you’ve already lost.

lol This statement makes no sense. How could I have lost? I’m simply existing. Where does the concept of winning and losing come from in all that?

Throughout the history of this planet, only a small percentage of life has been doing this contemplating the universe thing, and having high-minded conversations about how beautiful life is and how wonderful their experiences have been. But life isn’t anything like this, it’s a replicating DNA molecule that has been reproducing and consuming itself for approximately 4 billion years.

You clearly contradict yourself. First, you describe, quite clearly, an aspect of reality (the fact that there is a small percentage of life that has been capable of contemplation of the universe and of life itself, the fact that there have been conversations regarding how beautiful life is and how wonderful their experiences have been. Then you say life isn’t anything like this.

Obviously, life actually is something like that, since you clearly describe lifeforms actually doing this.

The great thing about life, and about reality as a whole, is that there are many aspects to it. Many factors contributing to the same thing. Yes, life is DNA replicating itself. As an emergent phenomenon from this, it is also beings who find life to be beautiful and feel they have had wonderful experiences. They aren’t exclusive. They don’t nullify each other.

Does it have a purpose? No, it was just an accident of biology, which perpetuated all these different manifestations of life.

The word “accident” implies that there was some other intention for how things were to manifest, up until the accident. I can’t comprehend this point of view because it has no basis.
The question pertaining to purpose can’t be answered without further clarification because it is too vague. For the rest, the easiest way of making my point is to rewrite your statment for you: “It was biology”. 'Cause that’s the extent of things. Life is biology, life results from biology.

And what are we? We are simply puppets animated by the non-benign chemistry that has been pulling our strings for hundreds of thousands of years.

Horrible analogy. I understand the extent to which you wish to feature the chemical aspects of our existence. The evident thing, however, is that there is also a cognitive aspect to our existence, which belies your characterization of humans as puppets.

To move forward, where’s the basis for us to believe that cognition and chemistry are mutually exclusive?

You think you have a self, a solitary unity self with a fixed identity? Well, sorry to break it to you, but you don’t. Your subjective experiences are just the end result of electrochemical activity in your brain.

Your conclusion doesn’t negate the first part of your statement in the slightest. So what if one’s experiences are the end result of electrochemical activity in the brain? Does it also follow that the notion of a self, of a solitary, unified self, with a fixed identity, cannot exist as the result of electrochemical activity in the brain as well? How otherwise would it exist?

Not that I feel there is a “solitary, unified self with a fixed identity”, stated as such, but your statement didn’t demonstrate in the slightest that there isn’t.

You can continue to fill your head with daydreaming and nonsensical wishful, hopeful thinking and talk about how beautiful and joyous your DNA ride is, or you can recognise that it isn’t a ride at all, just a stupid molecule creating biological experiments.

Once again, you have provided absolutely no substantiation for the idea that one excludes the other. I see no reason to think that your idea has anything to do with the nature of reality. If anything, the sheer nature of the chemical realities of the universe and the way in which they can manifest complex, conscious beings strikes me as being pretty damn beautiful, and the opportunity to partake in all of this pretty damn joyous.

Meaningless and amoral universe with a cycle of unnecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on the present generation by the generation preceding it due to insane and deluded animals mistakenly believing that they are bestowing something precious - sentience - that needs to be perpetuated at any costs.

Meaningless and amoral universe with no unecessary pain, suffering and death inflicted on future generations by the present generation.

Pretty tough decision to make isn’t it?

No, not really; in fact it’s not really a decision to be made at all. I prefer evolution, not “everything’s not perfect so we should just stop reproducing”.

Great post =D> It’s a good read, I like it.