why does god hide, if he/she wants us to find him/her?

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

I’ve wondered this recently… If god implicitly wants us to find him, he goes to an awful lot of trouble of hiding him/herself. Whether it’s in certain scriptures, saying the name of god in just the right fashion, explicitly making a connection to animals or trees, and therein you’ll find god…

This is probably more a question for those of you who’ve found god.

  1. What do you gain from “knowing” god?
  • It seems to me that one can be moral and upright without god.

  1. What does one know from knowing?

  2. Since we know that people can be good and upstanding without believing in god, and that people can be happy without god, what does the finding the ineffable hidden face of god show us?

2

If I was in an antiphysical dimension and had a hard time effecting the physical world, I would try and fail many times for people to do what I wanted, and they wouldn’t even know it was me doing anything.

The word ‘god’ means different things to different people. It is not physical or scientific so it is like personal opinion and it is subjective. It is theorized and taught. Different per person.

You gain an emotion. Beleif effects feeling.

They feel stronger about their opinion and try to make facts support it.

Lol.

3

I was raised a strict mormon from birth, though I am not affiliated with that religion anymore.

Once a month in my childhood religion, we would have testimony meeting instead of regular services, and basically it is people giving, “testimony” (but it is actually quite repetitive phrases said universally all over the mormon world.) People will go up to the podium and say, “I know this is the true church. I know Jesus Lives, and I know Joseph Smith was a prophet etc etc.”

I don’t believe these people know much about what they are saying, just what they have heard for so long and learned to repeat with slight variations and emotion.

What is interesting is that if they really “knew” all these things were true why do they have to repeat it over and over again ? . . . seems more like programing to me. I know that gravity is real, but I don’t go to a “testimony” meeting every month testifying to it like a stuck record.

I guess God is just playing hide and go seek. And he/she hides really damn well.

My personal view of god is that “it” is probably not human and that is why we can’t “find” it. I think we have to feel its workings. (it often manifests in music, etc) But this is just my view that works and feels right for me, and I don’t push it on anyone.

4

Makes sense.

People create music, and the chemicals/signals in your brain create emotion. So humans create ‘god’?

That is very nice of you. Good show old chap.

5

I of course understand this view, I know about chemicals flowing around our neurons, I just happen to personally believe in something besides human reasoning. The difference between me “believing” and those who claim to “know” is very different. I believe for two reasons I have already stated, because it “works” for me also b/c it “feels” right to me, not b/c I know. I don’t know, and I don’t believe you do either. I don’t think anyone knows or can know things so complex, we just reason, and b/c of our different backgrounds and experiences we come up with different answers, but some do believe and some do not, and so what? (some people follow things b/c it makes them happy, and that is not just in the sphere of existence questions, you know that. We don’t always follow things b/c they make “sense.” We also follow things b/c they “work” or make you happy. Big difference, I don’t try to “prove” god. that would be very el mucho dumb. Again my peronsal view is that god is probably not human, and therefore we can’t find it, but again REMEMBER I don’t KNOW or claim too, nor to I think anyone is “bad” for not believing.)

Don’t waste my time by trying to prove that “god” does not exist, that belongs to another post, and I’m sure I’ve heard it, and we all know that logic to most sound minded people = No god, but it doesn’t to all. Sometimes I get sick of always having to explain myself for saying I believe in something. :slight_smile: It seems like some people think you have to divide the world between believers and non-believers, but the our perspectives are usually more complex than that, and I’m sure you might think similar. but I understand why you posted what you did, it makes sense to me, it’s just called logic.

ta ta. You are all Sinnnerssss. j/k … ok, j/k.

6

Interesting. My experience is that I see God just about everywhere I look.

7

I see nature, without an implicit need for an all powerful being.

If god is subjective, we can never truly know him… it’s almost oxymoronic (no offense to believers) you tell yourself you believe in god, and you see god in the trees, moon, stars… but your interpretation of god, is yours, and yours alone.

If we can’t say a word, say “red” and know (or have a general idea) of what you are saying, than what is the use of language?

I realize there are many words that have the same spelling yet mean something completely different. - generally, given the context you can tell what one is talking about. If I say - God is in the details… what version of god am I talking about?

yeah, me too. Did you get to go to the temple? the ceremonies are quite interesting :wink:

this is exactly what god is… it’s a memory rote, that doesn’t create new pathways… it uses the existing ones that were created in your state of ultimate dependence as a newborn child. You learn that when you pray you connect to that “inner child”. and claim a “supernatural connection.”

There’s nothing supernatural about it… the consciousness is completely self contained within your mind…

Now, I’m not going to say that connecting to this “inner child” isn’t extremely useful sometimes, but … I feel it’s like a child grasping for help in a world that one feels cannot possibly be navigated alone.

The main theme of all religion even “buddhism” is that it connects us to this inner being on the grounds of “loneliness.”

only the lonely.

8

Although, essentially, this doesn’t answer the question, it seems to me that throughout the scriptures, there is particular importance placed on humans to have faith in God. If God desires us to have faith, then there must always be room for doubt in God, hence he does not show us he exists overtly.

I am not about to guess as to why God desires us to have faith, but I suppose that is the core of what you may be asking.

9

yeah, me too. Did you get to go to the temple? the ceremonies are quite interesting :wink:

…
… I did go to the temple. I left that religion after serving a mission, and just realizing that it was probably bunk. Yeah, the ceremonies are pretty groovy, ha ha. did you know that the “washing and anointing” was changed as of 2005. They no longer touch the sides of your body with oil (if you are not mormon, you won’t understand :stuck_out_tongue: ha ha) they only give you a blessing now, hands on head style. which makes sense b/c a lot of recent converts have complained about the “touching” which they had no idea about before going to the temple.

yeah I have a few friends who are still mormon for family purposes, but don’t actually believe it. we have a lot of fun joking around about some of the temple stuff. :smiley:

10

Jerry sees god!

ilovephilosophy.com/phpbb/vi … t=#1692843

Ahh…the memories!

11

Believeing in something unseen by oneself or others is “schitzophrenia” is it not?

So church is cultivating and encouraging “schitzophrenia”?

I belive in God…do I need meds for my condition?

12

No, it’s conditioning. Like I said the belief in god builds upon the same neural pathways as the ultra dependance to your mother.

13

If there is a god then the whole world and everything in it is a test. It’s a test to see if you like him inspite of all the bullshit and horror. So, he can’t come out and say “hi” because that would blow it.

It would make sense that god would want to disappear entirely just to see who naturally behaves morally.

14

Scyth

So how then to become more sensitive so as to become aware of God’s presence

Your death and life; the transformation of slavery into freedom . This has nothing to do with morality.

15

maybe god is a criminal for not doing more on this planet, and so he has excaped and is in hiding. Just like most criminals, they hide. Maybe that is why he doesn’t show himself, he is hidding from his crimes. (I am just having fun here.)

I think it is b/c we think of god as a father figure, human related or alien, instead of seeing god as nature, the cosmos, an energy or an interpretation. If those who believe, see god as nature (or cosmos or whatevs) for example then we don’t have to wonder why we don’t see “him” b/c then we do see “it.”

But the question all depends on the premise of how the idea of “god” is constructed in our minds. There are so many ways to interpret or construct god in our minds if one believes in such a notion.

maybe god is a penut butter sandwich, or not, or better yet grilled cheese. Grilled cheese sandwiches is where it’s at. :wink:

To me it all comes down to this. Logic generally (to most people) reduces god to just desires, needs and chemicals (or even disease) in the head. But for some people who believe that god is not human, therefore is not deteced with human faculties or reason, the “posibility” of a god “may” exist in the mind for those people. But there is “NO” human proof for this, so it is kind of a way to say, “maybe.” (Kind of agnostic in a way I think.)(b/c there is no proof, the notion probably should not exist in the science classroom, but instead in litterature or philosophy etc)

I think deep down many people who say they “believe” are actually party agnostic, that is if they can see the uncertainties in everything. If people think they have it all figured out why people believe in god, that’s kosher, we’ll see if their opinions stand in 200 years from now. I think humans are detectives, not encyclopedias of the universe, we just fucken don’t know it all, and to pretend to is, I think . . . very incomplete. We can only reason, I eat penut butter sandwiches with athiests as well as muslims, I don’t care, as long as its a good bite, and ya don’t thow it in my face.

16

“maybe god is a criminal for not doing more on this planet”

No, no, no, because if there is a god, and especially an afterlife then nothing on Earth matters one bit. This is why muslims blow themselves and other people up. The good go to heaven and the bad to hell. The miserable left behind should turn to god for support and know that they will on day die.

This world might as well be a video game.

On the flip side, I believe that Jews see the world as being the only place that you exist and a good life depends on following the laws of god. If all the Jews follow the laws then the Earth will be a nice place for them. So, again Earth is a testing ground.

17

this may sound weird, but it makes perfect sense:

god hides because he created the universe in order to harvest the metaphysical byproduct of selfless actions. the purpose of the universe is for humans to do things that are selfless. the purpose is not to make humans happy, or to get humans to come into heaven or to love god or kill infidels.

the purpose is to have humans be nice to other humans with their sole motivation being those other humans.

if we knew that god existed, our motivation for helping other humans would cease to be purely their happiness and would be aimed at pleasing god so that he will reward us. pleasing god for our reward is not selfless.

the only way that god has made his presence known is through one of the few if only certainties in the universe: happiness is good. it just is. i dont “have faith” that happiness is a good thing that should be created, i am 100% sure of it even though i cant explain why. and all of you agree with me, no matter how skeptical you usually are. thats because the only thing that god wants us to be certain of is the fact that we need to create happiness. once we create enough of our own, its time to move on and create somebody elses, which will then, coincidentally, create more of our own. absolutely every single conscious decision revolves around creating happiness, the difference between good and evil is the good:bad ratio for each of those conscious decisions.

i think thats the only possible explanation for why he would want to be invisible. i think this is the only plausible description of a god who cares about humanity and isnt evil or incompetent.

18

Nick,

what slavery?

and,

this is a distraction. It’d be akin to me saying “I created this great robot, but he could only be great by me transferring my intelligence to it.”

The other issue is your answer:

So god has hid his presence, to make room for us, that means the room we occupy - (intellectually speaking, remember that god was once easy to find!) the harder god is to find.

exactly. Remember, belief in god is along the same neuron and memory paths as the dependant state of early childhood.

19

That’s a rather depressing view of god. One that sits in the corner to “test us” to see if we are worthy of getting into the afterlife…

I guess some people require more testing thus are subjected to paralysis from birth?

20

“I guess some people require more testing thus are subjected to paralysis from birth?”

They would simply be part of the program. It would be how they react and how those around them would treat them.

If everyone does the basic they get to go to heaven forever. Such an illness in the scope of things would be like crying about a paper cut.