Why doesn't ILP love ILP?

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One of the things I have seen fairly regularly on ILP is the harsh criticism of ILP.

Whenever anyone tries to write an encompassing narrative about ILP the prognosis is very often negative. The critics hate ILP. These critics are not outsiders they are those who have been participants for a while on the discussion forums. Part of this must be a feeling of personal dissatisfaction writ large. While part of it is a tension over what people think a website like ILovePhilosophy ought to be versus what it is at the moment. Some speak of a golden age when ILP was at is peak, from which it has sadly degraded. While others grant no special status to any part of the history here and simply condemn it en mass.

What makes people disdain the collective of ILP?

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self loathing is fairly common…

-Imp

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Starting from what Imp said, is it possible that self-loathing is part of what we might call the Zeitgesit of our age? ILP is bound just as much to this moment in history as any of us, as such it cannot escape the effect of being here now. Or is that idea mostly trivial?

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not necessarily of our age… but perhaps of our content and context…

think of other groups, clubs, organizations whathaveyou…

can you imagine frankie and annette laying on the beach trying to fathom existential dread or wondering if mickey mouse will really lead them to the perfectly ethical life?

bound by history only as much as we choose to be bound…

-Imp

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ILP is good if you ignore the crap.
I have seen other forums that had more crap then this one.
People love to bitch, but they hate being treated like a dog.

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I am not sure Xander… I think if you transported ILP back 2,000 years it would still be loathed.

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Not so much self-loathing as self-preservation. Rather than face your own limitations, which the process of ILP has a tendency to paint large, it is easier to attempt to slash the canvas. Dorian never could look at his own picture now could he.

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yes, well Dorian Gray was an Aesthete, no? I suppose Philosophy is more art than science, self loathing/self preservation… nah, more like self gratification.

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I think that it has to do with the age group on the site, which is rather young. Young people, but not exclusively, have expectations of social roles that are far more concrete. Examples are: you are my mother, or you are my teacher, when in fact there really is no such thing in any perfect form.

So, one might log on here and expect to find a philosopher in a perfect form and there is no such thing, then one becomes disappointed.

Personally, I managed to get into a graduate school that was headed by a man that I idolized. I had read all of his books and thought that being around him would be really amazing, and this was when I was a fully grown man, by the way. However, I found him to be a guy that was worried about the economics of his department, seemed a little burned out, rarely read his super famous friend’s books and yet reviewed them, and generally longed for retirement. I pitied the warhorse that he was, but found myself disenchanted with him and stopped following his career.

That’s what hero worship gits yah.

That’s what goes on here at times.

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Good question, xanderman!

I feel that a lot of ILP’s critics are people who have not yet seen how bad many of the other large philosophy forums (out on the net) really are.

This is mostly likely not the case in every situation, but I do think it happens a lot here.

I’ve made extended stays at several of the other large philosophy forums out there in the last four years. I honestly can tell you that none of them were half as conduscive(sp?) to philosophical conversation as ILP is.

Here’s why:

NOTE: I’m honestly NOT trying to critize these forums, or bring negative attention to them – really, I’m not. I’m only highlighting the Good and Bad things about them to give others here a taste for what they are like.

PhilosophyForums.com = Great site in general. It has a lot of members, which means a lot of good topics. But it is incredibly “political” among the members there. Not a great place to start if you are at all new-ish to philosophy.

SciForums.com = The perfect example of a forum that is not well-moderated. Sciforums claims to have an “open-government” (the members make many of the big decisions regarding how the forum is run), but the lack of moderation gets in the way of otherwise-valuable threads & topics.

Frostcloud.com = Good forum, but not real active. It has it’s following.

KillDevilHill = Not a bad place to talk philosophy, but it uses a rather odd Bulliten-Board System that is cumbersome and ackward to use.

So, in retrospect, ILP is actually doing pretty good. No one forum is perfect, but I feel that ILP has decent members, a well-qualified team of staff members, and a lot of interesting topics.

…Just my humble opinions, anyways (sorry this was so lengthy). :wink:

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Title:Why doesn’t ILP love ILP?
thats not entirely true. take a look at my commendation thread in ‘mundane babble’. it may be snowed under by now. it did’nt seem to get any attention. how many others actually posted threads like that? am i the only one,or do i need to start an archeological expedition to dig deep enough to find it/one? and that thread was created before the points here today even came up.

P.S. my online dictionary(dictionary.com), i think it’s server just went down. what the hell is Zeitgesit???

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But of course, why else does anyone do anything…?

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ILP has hit the awkward, early teenage stage where it’s becoming too self focused, too self conscious and thinks the world revolves around it.

Individuals are set up as stereotypical heroes and villains and the group dynamics are being scrutinised and commented upon in every dozen, or so, posts. Additionally, ILP history is talked about as if there really were ‘good old days” and then, the zenofeller brake-up exacerbated the madness of a forum incessantly talking about itself.

If ILP was my teenage daughter, I’d say: “Don’t obsess about how others perceive you…… forget about your expectations…. put your effort into talking about issues, NOT YOURSELF… and, most important, lighten up.”

(I’m aware of the irony of this post :slight_smile:)

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Tab,

Careful. You almost stole Satyr’s line… :stuck_out_tongue:

I could easily be wrong, I often am, but I’m guessing that it has much to do with expectations. Members expect a great deal more than can possibly be delivered, and it couldn’t possibly be them, so it must be ILP.
I think too many folks come with the expectation of finding all the answers, or finding enlightenment, or in sharing their brilliance only to find an indifferent audience.
it never leaves me that ILP is a community, and like all communities offers as much or as little as the members are willing to put in. For those who come to get, there will be disappointment. For those who would shower us with their brilliance, there will be disappointment. But for those who patiently try to create an environment of their liking, ILP is both possible and won’t disappoint. All of this goes on at the same time and so ILP is never within a single vision, but in the personal agendas of each member. You rarely hear from those satisfied, and always from those who are not.

A reader board sign: “For every action there is an equal but opposite criticism.”

JT

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I actually quite enjoy coming here…little banter…flex the mental muscle (well, just the calve muscles, im planning on working out more)…bit of chat…lot of creation…lot of pondering, fucked by the muse, all that…it has its place in my bookmark…

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I would only add – in case its seen otherwise – that this is NOT a criticism. I wish I could remember everything I learned about group dynamics :blush: but suffice to say, people/groups/communities go through stages and each stage is valid and necessary – although sometimes painful. (It’s a little harder to read when people are constantly leaving and arriving though.)

Sometime soon, we’ll all be bored to tears with “What’s happened to ILP lately” threads and move on. Until then, people seem to have a need to explore it…

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Talk about hitting tthe awkward, early teenage stage… :wink:

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I wonder sometimes if it isn’t a teenager begging to be disciplined…firmer moderation, heavy handed rule enforcing? What do you reckon? Would we encourage more lurkers to come out and talk philosophy if we put a stop to the in fighting before it ever begun? Or is the in fighting a vluable and unique part of ilp that ought not be got rid of?