Uhh, man, there is sooo much incorrect information in this post, it makes me want to yell.

A) No, there is no evidence to state one way or the other whether or not the world is determined…absolutely.

B) If you don’t understand the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, don’t use it. I’ll explain later on.

C) Chaos Theory is not indeterministic. In fact, it’s quite the opposite.

D) Even if it was impossible to predict the future, this does not mean that the world is indeterministic. It just means that physical limitations of the universe are such that all computing power is capped so that one can not accurately retrieve and process all parameters in the universal system well enough to do such calculations.

E) Whether or not you drop a brick and it falls or flys out towards the solar system has nothing to do with deterministic principles. The question is, if you dropped a brick and it flew out into the solar system, can you blame it on randomness, or can you prove it.

F) Steven Hawkins believes in an indeterministic universe, and he’s one of the leading experts on quantum mechanics. In fact, he believes he’s “proven” that the universe MUST be indeterministic due to the way energy is emitted from and let into black holes. I have my doubts. I think he was too quick to blame indeterminism, and just because one cannot see the causal relationships within a given system does not mean that one cannot predict its nature. Hell, look at all atomic theory done thus far. Sure, it’s incomplete, but with it, we’ve found some amazing properties in this universe due to the fact that the system behaves in a determined way.

G) BillWaltonSexUniversity has no fucking clue what he’s talking about. Pfft, it’s no longer an issue my tight, tones ass.

H) Heisenburg did not crush Laplace’s daemon. Heisenburg’s Uncertainty Principle is still deterministic. Ok, I wanna repeat this, because sooo many FUCKING RETARDS (sorry…makes me upset) like to debate with me on this and I cannot stand it because Heisenburg himself said it was deterministic…sooo here we go…

[size=200]HEISENBURG’S UNCERTAINTY PRINCIPLE IS A MEASUREMENT PROBLEM AND HAS NO IMPACT ON THE DETERMINISTIC NATURE OF THE UNIVERSE WHATSOEVER![/size]

K, glad I got that out of my system.

Particles are where they are and they are what they are. We cannot gather all information about a particle because of the current supposed physical limitations of the universe. Why? I’ve said this before, and I’ll have to use this example again…

Picture a sinusoidal wave pattern. You do not have the original equation for the sinusoid Now, pick a point on that sinusoid. One, single, solitary point. Now, what is the amplitude of that wave? Well, there’s no way of really detemining that is there? So, you pick another point. Now can you tell what the frequency of that waveform is? Maaaybe. You can “guess” and make a “best fit”… but you do not know for certain. If both the points are on a rising and falling edge, then you’ve done nothing to determine the amplitude of the waveform so you can determine the exact frequency. If one point is on a rising edge and the other is on the falling edge, then you can make a “guess” as to which is the best fit sinusoid. However, given two…three…4000, 5,000,000 points on any given sinusoid, I can construct two sinusoids that also will share every single point in those sets but be COMPLETELY different waveforms. In fact, I cannot only just construct two, but I can construct an infinite number of waveforms that will fit said sinusoid. What does this mean? Well, if you consider the amplitude to be the speed of the waveform, and the points to be the position, you’ll see that you can never figure out the speed (frequency…which requires the amplitude to determine) based on the positions.

Conversly, lets say I give you the speed (frequency), and then I ask you to make me a sinusoid that has said frequency. Well, there clearly are an infinite number of sinusoids that share the same frequency, but modulate on max’s and min’s (amplitudes). So if you are looking at the entire structure and determining the frequency, you’ve lost sight of the exact points…

The more you know about one, the less you know about the other…

HOWEVER, this does not mean that this sinusoid doesn’t follow a pattern. Every particle in the universe found thus far has A) A speed and B) a position. These properties are independent on our measurement abilities, and as such, does not effect “causality”.

Recall, determinism isn’t about trying to predict the future. Determinism is trying to figure out if the order that we see everywhere is consistent throughout the universe. Determinism is saying that me, sitting here, typing this out, is just a fluke of Mathematics. Heh, not even a fluke… just a result.

Free will, however, presupposes that the universe creates itself moment to moment. This means that me sitting here, typing this out, is a result of the universe … or more specifically… myself choosing to do so in order to manipulate future events.

Thus far, I have seen no reason to stray from my hard deterministic beleifs. The argument, however, is far from dead, and I could be far from right.