Why is IT here?

This one really gave me chills down my spine when I first thought of it. Others may have thought of it before. That is what I am hoping. Why is everything here?

Wait, before you miss the true beauty of this question I would like to elaborate. I was asking myself, “Why do people create the illusion that nothing matters?” Everything must matter; everything has to have some purpose otherwise it wouldn’t be here.

BUT, what is the purpose of everything as a whole? Picture, if you can, the entire infinite cosmos. What determined it to be here? Why is IT here? What purpose does everything as a whole have? Does it even need a purpose? Did everything just happen for the hell of it? If this is the case, then everything really doesn’t matter. Correct me if I am mistaken.

For any people who believe in a supreme creator or God, He, She, or It would be included into this “everything” also. Did God just decide to create itself? If so, why and more importantly, How? If it didn’t create itself, then what did and why? Also, wouldn’t That be apart of the everything? So it would have to be able to create itself or be created by something else.

I mean what is wrong with nothing? What if the whole damn everything just wasn’t here. Is that even possible!? It turns my brains inside out.

Hi Murdoc. A beautiful question, and some good thought on it.

It seems if nothing has “a purpose” from anything outside the universe, we would still have the fulfullment of our natures, or our needs as a goal of our desires and as focus of our happiness.

But I think it more probable the universe was created, not by chance, because of the order in it. (Though is it possible that our minds’ order is only a reflection of the chance order of the universe? That may be a question for another topic.) Such an external Creator must be not the kind of thing that is created. (For yet another topic?) He must be a first principle of the universe and the meaning of it all; God being, for Aquinas, the contemplation and love of Himself, the Highest: He is a love-gift from Himself to all creation. (<=could be heresy: I think Augustine says, we are His gift to Himself.) There is a Sufi saying: “I was a treasure waiting to b e discovered, so I created the universe.” This makes most sense to me, even though I’m a Papist. : )

Although Hegel makes His existence dependent on the workings of the Dialectic whereby nothing cancelled nothing and then there was Being. Is that a satisfactory answer however?

Lots of questions on a good topic.

mrn

toreasonpublishing.com

I used to think about this a lot too, and the conclusion I came to was that I was looking at the problem backwards.

To me, thinking about this question was akin to rolling many dice once, and pondering the reason why I got the numbers I got. I mean, the chances of me rolling a 3, 6, and a 1 is 1/216, but unless you were specifically looking for a 3, 6 and a 1, the outcome has no meaning, as every other set of results has the same chance of occuring as that one.

Similarly, I think we look at the world we have around us in wonder without realizing that the world could have turned out completely different, and we would’ve wondered the same question about that world.

Don’t know if that made any sense, but that’s what I think about ths subject.

Because everything is part of the advance of our civilization. It’s just a matter of time when IT or anything else will appear in our world. But I agree with you - everything matters, that’s why I’m happy when I hear birds warbling, trees shaking and I like small things… people are great pessimists, that’s why someone told “A person realizes how expensive is smth, when he loses it”. Everything is important - if you think about the small things, the air would be too dirty if trees were missing, birds are cleaning the trees from worms… and so on, bees have care for flowers. Every small cog wheel from the big machine is important.

Rami,

Ah yes, why must it ‘just be’? Why not it just not being?

Yes. I wonder why everything just isn’t.

I like to think so. If it didn’t, then every nihilist is correct. If one thing was not here it would change everything else, no matter how small it is. But, if everything was not here as a whole then there is nothing that is changed or affected.

Yes, this gives me the most trouble. What if nothing wasn’t here either? Again, is that even possible? If it isn’t then I have my answer.

I don’t think so. Hell, half the time, I have no idea what I am talking about so maybe you can help me.

Murdoc wrote:

Lotta stuff here. I read two questions. One is the purpose of the universe and the second as why it is necessary. What is it doing and why?

I believe the universe to be material. Its purpose is the continual transformation of materiality into the finer and denser gradations as understood in Alchemy. Evolution and involution are the means by which this process is maintained and kept in motion.

So if the universe is material then everything being done, even thoughts, effects matter. When we feel this psychologically, we say that this or that matters. The more one gains in wisdom and appreciates the interconnectedness of all things, then, from this larger more expansive perspective, a person can psychologically experience that everything matters through becoming open to the experience of the transformation of materiality.

Why things must matter to begin with is another question.

Well although there is a part of me which still views this as a pseudo-question, I have been curious about what some other thinkers have thought about this ‘Nothing’. Perhaps you would be interested to read Heidegger’s 1935 lecture course; ‘Introduction to Metaphysics’, which begins with the question; ‘why is there something rather than Nothing?’

Regards,

James

Rami

toreasonpublishing.com

Hi Murdoc,

I recently have been on a similar strand of questions, though not as existentially motivated.

“Why is anything here?”

There is a universe, if we take String Theory as fact, there is a meta-universe with branes and 11 dimensions. We can pull the string of casuality back to the Big Bang, and with String Theory, presumably further.

We pull on the string and pull on it and pull on it. But, why is there anything here at all? I mean, it seems like there is “effort” involved in the existance of the universe. There is matter, there are quarks, and all these fantastic stuff… but why something rather than nothing? Wouldnt it be easier for there to be nothing.

But everytime I try to picture all of the universe, and for fun also all of the meta-universes of String Theory (because its fun, not because its fact)… and then say “Okay, what if it never was”.

Then there is… less than nothing really. It was just a lack of nothing or anything, I feel my brain breaks. Because it sort of points at the absurdity of anything existing at all, it seems so much easier for nothing to be here.

My friend gave me another way of thinking about it as a wave function. I didnt follow all the equations, but basically… if the universe exists then the probability of its state changing to non-existence is 0. If the universe doesnt exist, then the probability of its state changing to existance is infinite. I probably mixed it up.

I dont think there is any purpose or meaning to HUMANS, to the universe, who knows? My leanings are that it is just another natural phenomenon with no purpose or meaning, it just is.

God adds nothing to our understanding of it, if God created the Universe… then it begs the question… Why God? And so forth.

But everytime I want to induce myself with a headache, I try to imagine less-than-nothingness.

Space is not nothing. There probably is no nothing in the absolute sense because once you define it it becomes something. Space exists and is therefor something.

Why do you struggle with weather or not there is meaning of life beyond the finite? Why try to intellectually satisfy the proposition that there is no meaning to life and simply accept the gift. Accept its’ promise?

Any way, sorry to I keep on jumping in on your discussion. I do enjoy reading it and I can’t help but want to share a very good book on philosophy of life I found on the net a couple of weeks ago. From your discussion, I believed you’d rather enjoy taking a few moments of your day to read it, however I could be wrong.In any event I wanted to read your reaction to it as I believe you to be fairly “big thinkers.”

Besides, the author of the book seems to have a good grasp of scientific thought and philosophy and is a talented writer, so I didn’t think it would be below your intellectual level. His work, short, was an enjoyable read and it was free on the site. No need to log-in or anything!

Mirth
see: toreasonpublishing.com

Ok, if “space” is something then there must be a void in which “something” occupies.

‘something’ can be defined as the atom and ‘space’ the void which it occupies.

Perhaps everything is the ultimate expression of creationism.

Rami

Why? Space between matter contains the energy that holds it all, including all of the universe, creation, together, so something is everywhere and life is the most amazing manisfestation of all. Matter combines just so and it has a span of consciousness and a degree of intellect amongst many very interesting attributes.

Anon

Everything and even theoritical nothingness is creations ultimate expression, however, it takes life to appreciate it. So don’t you think we ought to care for life as our highest priority? Life is so very very cool and to show my appreciation for life, I will live in respectful consideration of all life.

Mirth

Check out toreasonpublishing.com

I am starting to think that it is impossible for there to be absolute nothing and impossible for there to be absolute everything.

anvildoc,

I can relate to your response the most.

This is the true reason why I created this thread. This is what ran chills down my spine; this “less-than-nothingness” you speak of. It interests me to the fullest extent. I must know more about it, I feel. Anyone have any thoughts on this “less-than-nothingness”? Can it be possible?

not everything needs a purpose… it is hard for us humans to see this because we live for the purposes, everything we do is for a reason… we eat to live and to stop hunger, we read to entertain ourselves… etc

Does nature have a purpose? we are a part of nature ourselves and we have purposes that support our own existance… perhaps natures purpose is to support its own existance. Its hard to imagine how something without character or perhaps even a mind can create its own purpose. we often envisage our creators as having human qualities… but what if nature itself created its own purpose… we can see that there are laws that nature follows… did something make these rules? or are these rules infinate in existance? it is even harder to imagine that not everything was created by something, it comes down to the cosmological argument which itself has flaws… if there is a god who created him? and if it is possible that he created himself, why is it not possible that nature created itself? or if you believe that god always existed, then why is it not possible that nature always existed? I personally dont believe in god, i believe in nature… (sorry if my ramblings confused you, im typing as i think)

angst, Why not start a new religion that is rational and based upon what we know rather than trying to explain what we don’t like a religion based upon Life itself, rather then trying to determine the square root of the hypotenuse?
Mirthful
See toreasonpublishing.com