How did society become so messed up?
In the western culture, to be a gangster, watch violence on TV or buy a fire arms magazine is deemed acceptable by society. At least people brag about it and you see it on TV all the time.
However
To be a porn star, watch porn or buy a porn magazine is not. Yet porn does no harm, except arguably to yourself, but that’s your choice.
Why is it that a natural act is deemed dirty and wrong yet acting like an ass and killing is not?
Youth.
Children fight, they wrestle, they have an instinct of violence in them. They like to play cops & robbers and such.
Also, violence is a unfortunate necessity- it's a bad, ugly, thing that can occaisionally be done for the right reasons. We don't keep the idea of it, the play of it, from people, because it's not special.
Sex, like it or not, is sacred. That means to do it to the wrong people under the wrong circumstances, is a defilement of the self or of an institution. And so, we keep it from people.
When you talk about the difference between a gangster and a porn star, you're talking about respect. A gangster does horrible things to other people, but can to some extent retain their respect (our respect for them), if we don't think about it too much. What a porn star does, they do primarily to themselves, and so respect is the first thing sacrificed.
hi there this is my very first post here…so here goes
Uccisore
i disagree with you about your asimption that vilolence is nateral while sex is not.
young children also play doctors and nurse, they have a nateral curiosity about sex and the opisite sex but this cause discomfort and embarisment in the audults and is therefore considered taboo and withled form them untile they are deemed audults to bt society.
children should be protect from sex and vilolence but its the audults embarisment of sex even when audults that causes it to be considered imoral , as in the example of a porn star as opposed to a gangster.
just my 2 pence
skooby
Skooby, let me say my point another way- it’s not about things being natural.
What I'm saying is, violence is not a wonderful, special, awesome thing reserved for people in love. As such, when violence is treated lightly, done between children, used in a joking or innapropriate manner, nobody is offended as long as nobody gets hurt.
Sex is completely different. You could compare innappropriate instances of sex to burning a flag or spitting on someone's mother.
Uccisore
But is it not society that has deem that sex should be special and for pople in love. sex in its self suggest nothing of love or monogomy but just progreation.
therfore we must think why has it been suquestered to a loving relationship before it is aceptable/moral.
i think this is becuase of the judaic/christain western views of morality that have become widespread and the norm.
Our embarisment and insucrities about sex cause us to keep it out of view, not just from children but from other adualts and this atituded has produced the taboo state that sex now has.
Skooby
Sure. I’m explaining the rational of why society thinks the way it does- and I think I’m pretty accurate.
Yup, that’s definitely part of it- Christianity and Judaism both teach that violence is an evil and sex is sacred.
Yes, yes, and yes. Something about the words you’re using, I get the impression that you think all of this is a bad thing. Yes? No? Why?
All a bad thing no not realy. i think violence is worse that sex in general.
I have no problem with vilolence or sex in films say as long as they are age restricted, though sometime i do wonder why such and such film has just had a sex scene,though it because this increase the number of poeple how watch it.
skooby
Well yes, violence is worse than sex, because sex is actually a good thing- properly applied. Violence arguably never is. It rises to the level of 'necessary evil', but never a good in itself. It's only natural that we make jokes about bad things, and exploit bad things, more than we exploit good things.
Took the words out of my mouth… but how about watching the art form of sex and not just some filth that makes you want to puke. My children were not allowed to watch violence - ever… not in my house.
I dunno Bessy, I’m really not in the mood to talk about whether or not the status quo is right or wrong, and I generally don’t follow up discussions once someone’s child-rearing choices have been brought into the mix. I suppose you could predict my thoughts on most of those matters.
I think that its good that you dont let your chuildren whatch vilolence worse than watching sex i belive.
skooby
Skooby, and others who are agreeing with skooby, I have a question for you.
Suppose someone teaches your 9 year old child how to fight, how to hold or shoot a gun, or how to wrestle without your consent. How would you feel about this?
Suppone someone teaches your 9 year old child how to give a really good blow job. How would you feel about this?
I don’t think we can dismiss the ‘sex is worse than violence’ distinction so easily.
it’s wierd in the USA, how violence is better than any kind of sexual content, whether it’s a healthy kiss, or pet… or unhealthy.
The proof is in the ratings… Video games and movies are far far more lenient to extreme violence than to any sort of sexuality.
it’s more healthy to express sexuality healthily than to express any kind of violence, isn’t it?
sure there are exceptions to both rules, like uccisores’, or using violence to protect someone, but generally, don’t you think I’m right?
I don’t disagree with that, however talking only about adults it does seem that sex is deemed unacceptable to discuss in public. Lets say person X buys a gun and a dildo. X will probably tell people about the gun and why she had bought it etc… I guess no one will find out about the dildo 
She won’t discuss the features and compare it to a friends etc… One could kill someone the other only pleasure.
Not always, swingers do it as a kind of hobby and why not? Who are we to control people? IMO thats what its about control? What would your thoughts be on that?
About respect: People don’t respect the porn star because the job is deemed dirty but why? Why can people have sex at 16 but only watch porn at 18? none of it makes sense to me. Like I have said its all about control of the individual by the state. Maybe I am wrong although recently my views on many things involve the state and control
free_thinker
Would you be more, less, or equally comfortable with Scythekain's avatar if it was holding a dildo instead of a gun? What would you suspect about Scythe as a person in one case or the other?
Eh, I think you go too far here. There’s virtually nothing she can do with that dildo that will send her to prison for the rest of her life. I think it’s easier to joke and play about violence than it is sex- again, because violence is a necessary evil, and not a pervertable good.
Oh, I totally agree that there are plenty of people who don't do things the way I'm saying, or have the beliefs I have. These same types of people you're talking about probably WOULD compare dildos with their friends though, wouldn't they? These sorts of people don't fit your stereotype anymore than they do mine. I'm just accounting for the sorts of people that have the attitude you're describing.
As far as controlling people, I don't think we in the US lives in the kind of society that controls people. It's clear to me that one of the things a free society likes to have, is cultural rules about things like sex, violence, and so on. The people have freely decided to have the rules they do about sex.
I don’t see where the State comes into play. Most of what we’ve talked about are rules the citizens put on each other- even things like age of consent laws and laws to limit pornography have a very great deal of support. None of that would change if put to a vote.
To best honest, I would like it more. I don’t like it when guns are used as penis extensions. Having a dildo is fine, as far as I can see it promotes only pleasure. What can a gun do, that is useful? Although I don’t understand why people would be uncomfortable with it but not a gun.
People don’t choose laws, I would say thats a myth. Did you chose to have Regans anti-trust laws in the 80s or anti-union laws. I guess not. Only an active majority choose laws.
Sexuality is a powerful way to control someone, thats where the state comes in. If people were free, they are more prone to be dangerous. Maybe I am going over the top. But why have anti-porn laws for adults. I am over 18, who are you or the state to tell me whats acceptable to watch on the TV. These laws do exist, if society has voted these in, what right did they have. Attatching stigma to it is one way. But I can watch someones head being blown off. The only question I have is: why and what authority do people have to decide?
or what if Uccisore’s giant stag beetle, was a giant sex toy?
Guns are mightier than penis’ And might = right.
You’re not going to stop someone from committing evil with a penis… that’s for damned sure.
As for glorifying violence or sex? I’m against both behaviors. I believe in acting like the character in my avatar.
Walk softly but carry a big gun…
than who chooses laws?
god?
Because this is a free country, society has the right to do these things. If the Government overturned societies will when it came to things like pornography, they would actually be repressing us.
My my, aren't we being rational. :unamused: Anyways, I asked a question, and I got an answer, so thank you. My point was that the vast majority of human beings living in the US have a great big hang up when it comes to sex toys and so on, and not guns. It has nothing to do with people controlling anybody else, we're almost all that way.
I believe that ethics are mainly something to recognize and try to understand, not something to sculpt. You can ask why sex is restricted more than violence- and maybe you're actually a bizarre enough person that for [i]you[/i], they aren't (though you didn't comment on my blow-job example, that I saw). But for most of us, these beliefs are much more strongly held than can be simply disregarded. I could go on and on- for example, hero worship. Our heros are warriors, not whores. And again, you're free to be the exception to that rule, I suppose.
I would be more f?#ked off if someone taught her that then to wrestle. I would say that they are not fair comparisons though. Thats why I mentioned only adults. Its the parents job to protect achild and society’s at large. However an adult can do as he wants, if one one gets hurt.