why should a student have to pay attention quietly in class?

why should a student have to pay attention quietly in class. suppose i was a teacher, and a student would rather chat then listen to me, then i punish him…but why…why should he have to listen and pay attention quietly?

Because until children have been socialized properly they are little more than animals.

Freedom of expression is a barking dog, a squawking bird, a screaming fox. Nature must be silenced before civilization can begin.

Because, someone is paying for that education, wether it is a parent or yourself. Distracting others from that paid for education is essentially theft, harrassment. It harms others.

beats paying taxes

-Imp

Nice try.

Why not save the money and not bother in the first place?

This question could only have been asked by someone who has never been a teacher.

Maybe Ice is an undercover teacher looking for sage advice for classroom problems. :smiley:

Hmmm…Ice is back?

Because classrooms are not about freedom. If they were then citizens might actually act like they were free. Schools are for the preparation of a passive public. Get a kid early, make sure he or she knows right off that his or her interests are not important. Do not try to engage their interests, trample on them, stifle them, shut them down. Teach the kids that learning is the absorption of “facts” that other people decide will be placed in their brains. This prepares the children for TV and election campaigns and when administrations want people to go to war.

…college kids are always pro-war, right? It’s a conspiracy, I tells ya.

What they are on either side of the issue is people who are likely to swallow whole the ideas of whomever they respect. They have not been allowed to creatively and dynamically interact with information about ‘the way things are’ and this is shown by the poor thinking in general on both sides of issues.

Sure college students are often ‘anti-authority’. First time away from home. Now they are adults, theoretically, after 12 years of being told what to think. Some percentage rebel. But rebellion is not in general the product of critical thinking or investigations brought on by them pursuing their own interests. This can be shown by the number who tend to become more conservative later on. It is fashion, it is life stage, but it is not because they have had there interests and criticism respected. And so it ends up being shallow in most.

I haven’t met one uneducated person with the capacity to think critically about important issues. Uneducated people are much more likely to fall prey to propaganda.

Is that what your parents did??? That explains alot.

“educated” people fall for a different propaganda, and they think they have the Truth

-Imp

I’ve noticed the quotation marks in “educated”…

what is a truly educated person, imp?

an education can be had at many fine institutions and they will give you a sheet of paper that shows your level of education…

“I know that I know nothing”

the scales of judgment shift

-Imp

I dont know where you’ve met a good sample of people who did not get elementary school education. You’ll have to forgive me if I don’t take your response as statistically relevent. Those who have not been trained not to think by schools are also, obviously, trained in other ways - TV is a wonderful babysitter for many of these people and poverty also restricts much of what these people are able to do, be exposed to, etc. The pedagogical farce in schools is also not restricted merely to schools, it is stock and trade of much parenting.

I should have mentioned before in response to your first response that I do not think it is a full conspiracy. I do not think people sat around plotting to have a dull populace and developed a pedagogy around this goal.

I do think, however, that the fear of children thinking for themselves, being creative, having real self-respect in relation to authority, etc. leads to adults who lack these traits. IOW hidden, not very well at all, in most pedagogy out there is a real distrust of autonomy, democracy and fostering individuals’ interests. We can ramble on about freedom and democracy, but one of the reasons it ends up being seen as the idiotic limited choice between democrats and republicans - and mroe and more Nike and Addidas or McDonald’s and Burger King - is because that is the limit on freedom and democracy in schools/parenting. We are trained to be passive choosers between, at best, not critical creators of society. Not as participants.

Do I think the ‘conspirators’ really have a grip on the damage they are doing? No, not really. And so it fails the test as a full conspiracy. A conspiracy of dunces.

I used to buy that, until I realized that growing older means an increase in the number of brain cells lost. Fortunately I am not yet old enough to believe that any argument that tries to characterize the motivations of any large number of individuals as being even partially legitimate.

Then how do you know that they don’t have the truth?

I never said I knew they had anything… it is what they claim and they are shown to be wrong time after time…

-Imp