Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgre

Why was Adam exempt from the transgression when the transgression was disobedience?

“Let the women learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” (I Timothy 2:11-14)

I think that Adam, not being deceived, was more culpable than Eve.

Why then did God favor the guiltiest, Adam, with, — he shall rule over you?

Men rule over women? Why when men were not deceived but disobeyed?

What was the transgression, — if not a wise decision to choose knowledge and wisdom and shun immortality of the flesh, — even if that were possible, — and why was Adan not punished as hard as Eve when he was clearly more guilty?

Regards
DL

I suspect for the same reason that women rule over you children.

Adam wasn’t exempt. He was punished to spend his life in hard labor, just as Eve was punished to have birthing pains, and they were both punished by being kicked out of the garden.

Elaborate please. You have not made yourself clear.

A man ruling over a woman is hardly the same as an adult ruling over a child.

Or are you suggesting that women are just like children to men?

Are men that much brighter than women?

Regards
DL

True, but Eve seems to have the greater burden.
Look at how many women died in child birth alone not to mention that women, who were not even there, must now kowtow to men. He shall rule over you.

Since Adam was the only one to not be deceived by God’s power through Satan or the serpent, then he should bear more of the consequences than Eve. Right?

Regards
DL

Well, now we’re talking about a matter of your opinion and taste, and not Christian doctrine.

I have no idea how the deaths of women from childbirth compare to the deaths of men from hard labor. I know that labor statistics in the U.S. reveal that men are far, FAR more likely to die due to workplace injuries than women, but that’'s just a tiny slice of the scope we’re talking about.

As I recall the story, the woman was talked into it by the serpent who lied, and the man was talked into it by the woman who relayed the serpent’s lies. I’m not seeing a big difference in culpability, no.

I don’t know how you can say that without knowing who was supernaturally controlling the serpent and why God would let Satan into the Garden. Further, many do not see the serpent as lying at all. No one died that day and then Christians came up with a day being a thousand years to explain why A & E did not die. Dumb to dumber.

I could not find any stats on maternal death back then but 10% sounds close. Possibly less. That tells me that women had it harder than men especially since women now had to kowtow to men.

God seems to reward the evil ones, men in this case, while punishing the more innocent.

Regards
DL

Soldiers are paid for their labor, so I presume we could call that (dangerous) work, especially in wartime.

I still have yet to ever get a reasonable answer about :
If Adam and Eve were the first humans, how is it they were sent from the garden to the people in the world? Out of all the stories in the bible , that one story is the one that really breaks the whole thing into serious doubt.

Sure but I see that as purely men’s doing.

If we had more women in power, as in ancient days before the Bronze Age, we would have had less wars.

Equality would solve that little problem even today. But men are still denying it to women.

Regards
DL

Doubt should start at page 1 and the first sentence but believers don’t really believe so do not care if their myths make sense or not.

It is culture and tradition that people believe in. Not some God. They are like their clergy. Liars or self-deceived.

Regards
DL

Say what? I’m just relating the story you’re criticizing. I would think if you were going to make up elements to the story that aren’t there, they would be to shore it up, not to break it down. A story is very easy to criticize when you’re willing to simply make shit up that’s not IN the story just to critcize it.

Good for them? That doesn't change the fact that Adam was not exempt from punishment, and it doesn't change the intention of the story.

So you couldn’t find any stats, so you make up a number that sounds right to you, and this number you made up confirms your suspicion? THAT’S your argument? You still need to compare this 10% number you made up to the number of men who die as a result of labor. I didn’t bother looking for any stats on labor related death back then, but 20% sounds close. So now that my made-up number is bigger than your made-up number, what do we do?

I realize that that's the point you created this thread to make.  What I don't understand is why, now that I've explained to you that Adam's punishment and Eve's punishment were comparible, and now that I've explained to you that their transgressions are compariable, you CONTINUE to make this argument as strongly as you did at the beginning, as if nobody said a thing.   If you're going to create threads on the premise that people should take arguments and evidence seriously, then you should do so yourself.  In fact, you've in the above managed to take a STRONGER position as a response to evidence contrary your position- you've moved from Adam being exempt from punishment to Adam being rewarded for evil, when all the evidence presented in the thread points in the opposite direction; that you were simply mistaken about Adam's lack of punishment.

I did not say lack of punishment for Adam.
I did indicate that Eve was punished more severely.

“Adam’s punishment and Eve’s punishment were comparible”

Being as Eve ends being a slave to Adam, while he rules over her, and knowing he disobeyed and she was deceived, I do not see how you can see a slave and a master having the same or a comparable burden.

But if so, I could use a good slave. Come and be that. You will like it as much as being the master.

Regards
DL

You said Adam was exempt in your opening post, and you said that he was ‘rewarded’ in your more recent. If you want to claimthat Adam was punished, but that Eve was punished more severely, then that’s fine, but it’s a claim that you can’t argue for, because it has all the objective rigor of claiming that chocolate cake is superior to angel food.

Because, obviously, the establishment of a 'slave/master' relationship isn't the only or even primary aspect of their punishment. Again, you are arguing without rigor- the only thing you seem to give a shit about is that Adam was put in a place of familial authority over Eve, so therefore no matter what I reveal to you about what the Bible really says, you are making statements like the above as though it's a one-issue situation.  That's why ridiculous statements like "Adam was rewarded" seem to make sense to you- if you read the story with an attitude that you're simply going to pretend not to see anything that doesn't relate to gender equality, then yeah, Eve's punishment was to be lorded over by Adam, and Adam's punishment was [redacted for ideological purity]. 
Another, similarly one-issue person could come into this and say that Adam was punished more severely and Eve was rewarded, because Adam has to toil and Eve doesn't; if the only thing you care about is labor, then Adam's situation is far worse than Eve's. A person who continually ignored the whole situation because they refused to talk about anything but labor would have just as lop-sided and irrational understanding of the story as you do. 

 But instead of transparently trying to turn a Bible passage into a statement about a political issue, how about actuall deal with what's written there? Namely, Adam was punished by being forced to toil to exhaustion his whole life, Eve was punished through birthing pains and being made subservient to Adam, and both were punished by being kicked out of the garden.  Your claim that Adam was exempt from punishment or rewarded in some way is simply false.

Honestly, I think the root of all this confusion is that you chose to criticize the Genesis story without actually reading it, and basing your opinion on a single verse in Timothy instead. Now you see that your interpretation based on a single out of context verse was hopelessly incorrect, and you’re stuck defending an untenable position. Nobody on the internet can admit when they are wrong, so you’ll be stuck saying stupid shit like “Why don’t you come be my slave if you think it’s so cool” for all of eternity unless I stop replying to you. Bummer.

The root of your confusion is thinking a slave is as happy as the master.

Regards
DL

Everything I said above still stands- the argument you made in this thread was fundamentally incorrect because you don’t know enough about the subject matter you intended to criticize. Rather than face this fact, you’re trying to derail your own thread into social-justice bitching because that is a fact-free environment in which the style of your prose scores more points than knowing what the fuck you’re talking about. SO now the thread is over, and you’re free to start the process again in 10 more just like it.

Yep. :laughing: