Why We Need God

Much, almost all discussion of God and religion falls under the general heading of God is - God isn’t, or the possible attributes of God. For a concept of entity that has never been seen, or heard, or in any way been shown as manifest, what is this constant need in man to have an all-knowing omnipotent creator and guide in his life?

After all the discussion of whether God exists or doesn’t, after wrangling over what God did, does, and will do, after all the careful positioning an individual goes through to describe a relationship with this entity, including outright denial, it comes to something very simple. Man needs or wants an answer to two simple questions. Who am I? and, Why am I here?

So I would ask, do you know?

I know why those questions are asked. God being a reflection. Man’s inherent
need to form the world around him in his image. As if the universe has the type of plan for him as he has for it.

-SS

I give up. Who are you and why are you here?

pitt.edu/~wbcurry/nietzsche.html

The reason why this disease spreads so efficiently is rooted in two reasons: the general lack of intelligence in the ordinary person (which composes the majority of any people), and the versatility of its ambiguous nature; it is the kind of language game that, like an amoeba, can attach itself to an unsuspecting host without giving itself away. When discussing Christianity, since nothing makes even the slightest bit of sense…everything begins to appear to make sense. It is like when one is in a maze, they assume it is a maze…without ever needing to get out of it, to prove it.

‘I’ am me because this particular ‘I’ can be nothing else. If ‘I’ were something else, then ‘I’ would not be this particular ‘I’; ‘I’ would be some other ‘I’ instead.

‘I’ am here because this particular ‘I’ can be nowhere else. If ‘I’ were somewhere else, then ‘I’ would not be here; ‘I’ would be in some other location instead.

Are you not merely a secondary derived phenomenon cobbled together as a consequence of the once separate warring agents become “cooperative” through the accidental process of natural selection? Isn’t your subjective sense of your self nothing more than a semi-illusion created by culture atoms known as memes?

okay first " Who am I "

a Human Being and within this essence of the existence of this being , us( Human ) , you are you.

 second " Why am I here " because you can't be anywhere else , in the Universe. 

and if you believed in your own Humanity these questions would not come up.

Here we are in the 21st century. Its time to make sense. No more long words with unclear meaning. Let’s say what we mean explicitly. .

“What are we here for?” AAAAHHHHHHHH. Does that question really have to be asked?….”
whats the meaning of life?” “does god exist?” really these questions are so subjective they don’t really mean anything……
for starts define god? No actually don’t even try……its bollox any of your silly definitions of god are crap. The truth is: you can’t tell the truth you can’t put it into words. And so my point………………Let’s start a new religion woooo wooo woo. Come on Let’s do it! no more questions, no more dogma…… this is a new religion.
Basically if it works for you then fine do it(provided you don’t hurt others). You wanna prey? fine u wanna meditate? u wanna dance, chant, sing?….come on. “Beyond good and evil”? I’m sorry, but in the end of the day we all no what’s morally right and wrong. You know. (Ok unless your crazy but even then you still probably know.) Stop the arrogance. Stop looking for answers to religious questions. Enjoy yourself…enjoy others…be kind…smile. enjoy nature. Enjoy the simple things. Its not that hard. All you need is love. Anyone can do it with a little help from your friends. Don’t hate its pointless and silly. Come on peoples its soooo easy. Bad things happen, they do for sure. But really you just got to get on with life. Make the best of a bad situation. Meh. Its all just a cosmic dance! That’s it. No more “whats it mean?”, no more “whats what?” No more questions. No more restrictions of what it means to be spiritual there are infinite paths to god. If the path has a heart go down it. With a hop, skip, a jump and a little jiggle. Blah blah blah blah blah. Im no atheist, theist, pantheist, agnostic or anything else……Im just a part of the universe with an ego, Im a human being. I know theres a truth a know theres more to life than cold matter bouncing around because im made of that matter and im not cold; im aware, im here, im alive im me and I find the world beautiful, funny, tragic, inspiring and scary. But I can’t put the truth into words. Its not a describable thing; God, the Tao, the buddah nature, whatever the fuck you want to call it. You don’t describe it; its beyond that. But its not complex its simple, its obvious; the truth is right there, you can see it… you do know it! You just confuse yourself trying to describe it asking questions about it; putting it in a box. Its “the bible” “its jesus” “its buddah” blah blah blah. Saying “this is god”, “this is the way” “this is how we should live” As soon as you try reasoning it out like that you break it, you lose it. A clear mind is the way you see the path that’s right. And its not hard; its balance; its not right to never do such and such but its not always right to do something either. “Everything in moderation especially moderation”. Ying and yang; balance. There’s a time and place for every action. People make bad decisions when they take extreme points of view as a life long choice. There can be times its right to kill another human! In your hearts of hearts and when you have a clear head you know when that time is.

The problem: a new religion with no dogma, no scripture (Zen is already that)….we need structure though. I say this is what spirituality is: to create things, to be expressive, to outlet irrationality in a controlled form. Dancing, music, chanting, preying mediation these things are done to put our minds in a certain state if we do them in large groups of people we feel “something”. We can create moments of religious experience simple or profound. This “something” is god. (No atheists, it really is god.Get over your disbelief). But not a god that’s defined by scripture. God is the cause of meaning that’s all, he’s just a personification of the irrational reason its worth living. But it is worth living hence he exists. But it’s not a question of him existing at all!!! He is outside of causality! You can’t say “well if god created the universe who created god??” because god isn’t in the causal universe hes outside time and space! I’ll stop with these definitions of god though…He can’t be explained….

So yeah I think we should have a new religion thats not dogmatic its non-political to the very core yet it provides people with the means to clear there minds of irrationality through dancing or whatever. This not a new idea the quakers quake, most(all?) relgions have some form of singing dancing or whatever… these and the role of relgion to bring people together are what is needed.

If I want to try and be profound I guess in answer to “what does it all mean?” and “why are we here; whats the point?” Because theres is no answer to these questions, there is a point. If there was some simple answer then that would kind of demystify the devine and there would really be no great reason. basically read some Zen koans… The point is to enjoy the profound experience of being alive. Its great!!! life is amazing!!!

(aplogies for bad grammer, spelling, slang, swear words)

Now go dance a silly dance bitchs!!!
Experience!!

John Lenon? is that you John? I never thought we’d hear from you again!!!

Welcome back from the dead! We missed you… :laughing:

Who am I, and why am I here?

Not sure. But, I am somebody, or at least something. And I am here, though with little clarification on why. Guess I’ll keep on keeping on.

Consider gods as security blankets, in the back of our minds we all know we are simply an experiment in life. Our belief in Gods takes that simple little unkown and changes it to something bearable…

Why are we experiments? We have no idea why what when and how. We don’t know for sure the end result. we have no real sign posts or manuals or instructions imprinted in or on us, so we fall back to Gods. Its safe. In many ways Gods help keep a form of sanity. If we have no purpose then why? Gods give purpose where there are no purposes found within us. It keeps us sane and from obliterating life.

So is the gospel according to Kriwest that our lives are a kind of experiment and in reality we have no purpose?

felix,

I won’t speak for Kris, but of course you have purpose! We all have purpose from the perspective of duality. But in reality? How would one know? We can project our questions (the actual point of this thread) and assign any answers we like. But all of our questions and answers are projections. Pick and choose whatever makes you comfortable.

Tentative,

What do you mean by “we all have a purpose from the perspective of duality?” If all questions and answers are projections than what is the purpose of discourse? Isn’t it meaningless? Does reason have a foundation or is it just a human convention?

Picking and choosing whatever makes you comfortable" reads like a statement of skepticism about the possibility of knowledge. What if you pick an answer and you get a nagging feeling that you are leaving out some bit of information? Do you have an obligation to yourself to try to find the answer? If your position is that it doesn’t matter, how do you fend off complacency?

Are you committed to not knowing? Are you committed to absolute knowledge? You said something about probability somewhere Are you commited to living by a standard of probability? All our attitudes have consequences in choices. Should we choose seriously or is it just an arbitrary matter of “comfort.”

Projection is a real problem for knowledge. But if projection is all there is then the concept of projection is a projection. So it’s self-refuting. If that’s the case, meaningful discourse is impossible. Projection must have something to project onto like the wall of a cave. And projection it self must be something like a lie or a partial truth. I’m sure you realize that there are limits to skepticism. So how far do you take it?

To make this short:

Our lives are meaningless, and at the same time filled with meaning.

Pick your frame of reference, both are true.

It’s fairly obvious, I think, that not everything can have a meaning or purpose outside of itself. Our purpose or the meaning of our lives is the meaning that we decide to give to them.

Felix,

That would depend on perspective, wouldn’t it? No matter the perspective, one must “make sense” of the world. What other foundation for reason other than human sentience would you suggest?

From my perspective, knowledge is always condtional and provisional in that it is process. Knowledge isn’t a chunk of concrete, even though many would like to believe it is so. I assume always that there is more to know, and yes, i enjoy “looking over the hill”. That isn’t complacency, it is curiosity.

There may be, probably are, things that we may never know. I accept that. But that isn’t resignation, nor does it change curiosity. There are many areas of human understanding where either lack of ability to investigate, or simply not having the right concepts prevents us from narrowing the range of probables. Probability is a continuum. It is a way to say, we don’t know enough to provide an accurate range of predictability. I’m reasonably confident in the probability that the sun will come up in the morning. I have much less confidence in my understanding of black holes where “the laws of physics may not apply”. I don’t know what you are suggesting about attitudes and consequences. I might say that a particular perspective allows or precludes certain considerations, but that is true no matter the circumstances. I don’t understand what you mean by serious choices. How would I know if it is serious or not? I can certainly define anything as ‘serious’ or ‘not serious’, but that is by definition. There is no external intrinsic ‘serious’ that I’m aware of.

You say projection is a real problem for knowledge. How so? Are you suggesting some form of ideal external knowing waiting to be discovered?
I suspect that you think I present projection as some sort of deliberate deceit and that isn’t it at all. We project our understanding of the cosmos as best we can. To the extent possible, we test our projections and see if they allow us prediction. Unless you have another choice, how else?
Skepticism? Each of us makes choices as to what we consider ‘reasonable’ evidence along the continuum of probability. Perhaps this is the basis for discussion? :wink:

Dorky–

According to what frames of reference are our lives meaningless and meaningful?

So if Bin Laden has decided that his purpose and meaning in life has been to be a hero then that is the purpose and meaning of his life. Right?

Right. The purpose of bin Laden’s life, to him (and as an aside – probably to millions of other Muslims, as well), has been to be a hero of the Muslim people.

Now, a question for you: What is God’s purpose?