We aren’t as stupid as buffalo…
Well, maybe some of us are…
If we had nothing to do, and knew all…
WE COULD INVENT A CURE FOR BOARDUM 
^^^cmon, im right.
dopomite levels in the brain is not that complex.
Lots of people over-estimate the value of pleasure i think.
For me, as i get older and learn more, i get happier and love life more and more, im so happey that so many human beings exist on earth, even though im getting less stupid.
Also remember the existance of the infinint,
our memory is measurable…
I think that “possable” picks up more progressive momentum then “done” or “already is”.
As we get smarted, life gets better, is my theory.
Quality of life is far better in modern times then in ancient times aswel!
Interesting words,
how often have you experianced this phinominon?
Dan,
Good point. I’d say the same thing of emotion in general. While it sounds terribly unromantic, it is quite possible to enjoy a wide range of feelings via chemistry (amateur or professional). 
Though, one could argue that the mechanics underlying such things takes nothing from their experience. The same can be said of beauty. After all, just what is it that one finds appealing about, say, a beautiful woman? If you break her down into her parts (a strand of hair, a patch of skin, or going further, viewing her as a collection of molecules), she’ll loose her appeal. We find the form we perceive “in” things appealing.
Of course, the argument then becomes, just what these forms are, where they actually exist (in the things we perceive, or solely in the mind - a case of us projecting upon what is really a mess of things about us), etc. I’m inclined to accept a “middle” position on this point - that there is objective order and elegance, but that we also do a great deal of projecting upon this, largely due to life long conditioning.
The idea of perfect intelligence fascinates me. Or not even perfect necessarily, as that may or may not have less meaning than ideas of increasingly surpassing amounts of intelligence. Can God figure out any mathematical problem he wants to instantaneously? Does he want to? What’s it like for him to do that? Does the answer already exist and he merely accesses it? As for understanding of life, does understanding and apprehension necessarily happen within a given framework? What is the framework of perfect intelligence? Is it always arbitrary? If mind is separate from outer world, knowing it is some kind of in-forming of the mind–but the physical composition of the mind, if any, is different from the physical composition of what’s known, so by what rules do we deem a translation from one form to the other adequate or even perfect? Of course to even begin to answer that question would require knowing what knowing is or what mind is made of. I wonder if an infinite mind knows nothing; perhaps increasing amounts of intelligence are built upon eachother/at least upon a set of primitive mental functions. Maybe intelligence in essence is the recombination of what’s broken into parts with the same deal. So intelligence is a game, and perfect intelligence would be the outcome of the game before it was even played; in other words, an empty field. (It reminds me of a problem that may or may not be pertinent: think of a computer that runs infinitely fast. now give it the algorithm a=1; while(1) a!=a; cout << a; … how long does the program take to execute? What’s the value of a after/if it finishes?) It’s really cool to [try to…] imagine astronomically high levels of intelligence, but it seems there are different paths to take. I wonder how many there are?
There is something subtly contradictory about a perfect intelligence being able to predict everything; i’m not sure what it is yet. It’s like if you knew everything you could’nt have a temporal experience. I dunno, i couldn’t translate it into logic, my IQ isn’t high enough, oh well.
I doubt that somehow, I should imagine your looking at western captialist society and going shit, look at all that greed, we must all be inately greedy. Well actually I think not society drives us this way, but there are plenty examples of people who arn’t greedy? also I think it is a fairly laughable philosophical position to take that human nature is to be greedy. I wonder how Aristotles Nichomachean ethics would have read if we were “Greedy Zoons” as opposed to “Politikal” ones.
it is simple. look at history…
what is it? this tribe conquers that tribe growing by leaps and bounds… some tribes are more “evolved” because they speak english? nope.
all cultures, all history, people are greedy and selfish. period.
why do you think ghandi is so revered? he was an exception.
why would ethics have to be developed in the first place if people were born such natural angels?
-Imp
now what your saying is confused I think,
are you saying that cutlure vs culture vied for power? i.e. one society was greedy to take over another one? - thats plausible but there have been many societies that havn’t been militiristic
or are you saying that individuals are greedy? cause that maybe empirically true, but not in all instances, and I think definitely not a plausible account of human nature.
If everyone was inately greedy then society would never have evolved. The conflict would have been insermountable
no, society evolved directly because of greed…
I want that… how do I get it? have him make or produce it …
multiply that by how ever many people and products are necessary…
some want property, some want eternal life in heaven, some want peace…
everybody wants something and their greed to have it drives them…
life itself is conflict… the will to power… and nothing besides…
-Imp
interesting, but what your talking about isn’t society it’s slavery and their not the same thing. People justify slavery by, as Aristotle did, thinking of them as a seperate society, not like “us”.
Interesting. From my understanding, the concept of “perfection” is most certainly a human creation. If it is not, then we have to go down the path that some deity or transcendent figure is perfect and all knowing and has created all truth, like Descartes’s God in his Third Meditation. The idea that “perfection” exists, forces us to believe in determinism. It maintains that there are facts out there that exist independently of human existence, and that we human beings are just puppets in some kind of “game”. I may be wrong, but I believe that the concept of “perfection” was instantiated into our minds by firstly Plato, then Christianity, and now Positivism and all its scientific disciplined offsprings, which is what Heidegger called the “calculative sciences”.
You are equating greed with Nietzsche’s concept of the will to power. They are not really the same thing. Greed is to possess excess of what is required, whereas the will to power, in the positive sense, is a kind of self-mastery, an attempt to better oneself as a person, to overcome innate obstacles.
Nietzsche’s positive conception of the will to power is a controlled force, not a blind greedy will that you have explained above.
no, it is not controlled at all…
and who say what is “too much”?
definitely not the artist…
critics? critics? but what nietzschean artist gives a flip about the critics?
especially when one exists beyond good, evil, and “positive self mastery”…
-Imp
Impenitent, I think you’re a little bitter. People are greedy and self-centered, yes. But for you to say everyone is like that all the time, is ridiculous. That is not our constant drive, I would rather say our constant drive is absence, or the illusion of absence. Then it could be said that all people, are trying to move towards a state of being where they no longer feel any absence. However, most people aren’t very intelligent in the way they go about this. That’s why you end up getting people concerning their entire lives with material, myriad things, and they never quite get at it.
not bitter at all… realistic…
driven to absence?
driven by greed for absence?
if you have whatever peaceful, nirvana, heaven, utopia, communist, nothingness, whatever as your goal, you are driven to it by greed. that’s how the game is played. period.
to pretend it is something else misses the point…
preach about the great utopian spiritual oneness of nothing… how do you get there? how?
through an act of greed. nothing more.
-Imp
Sounds like a form of anarchy rather than an a form of art. If the will to power is not controlled in any way whatsoever, then one becomes little better than a wild animal. Didn’t Nietzsche teach that man is something that must be overcome, meaning we should attempt to surpass what is all too human? To do this, the will is to be controlled and forged so that the all too human can be transcended.
To become Ubermensch, aren’t we meant to control and dominate our own desires and inclinations, instead of them controlling us? I think so.
Yes, but I think their must be a balance maintained. Because if you believe you can control everything about yourself, you’re in serious denial. After all, all of your efforts at “controlling” yourself, have no effect on the proper operation of your brain, nervous system, etc. The only reason why we must control certain things, is because we have the ability to intentionally act against nature.
As far as being driven by greed, I’m still not convinced. You talk about oneness, nirvana, etc. like it’s a big joke.
See impenitent, the reason why you’re wrong is because greed is an excessive desire. It’s a desire for more then one needs. I could hardly say that the motive for everyones actions is the attainment of an excess of material gain, or whatever other gain might be involved. I think what you meant is everyones actions are motivated by the desire to satisfy one’s self, therefore you would think it’s greedy, but this is not the case. It may be classified as selfish, but that’s a different thing entirely. But then again, you might follow it through, realizing that there is nothing you can really do for yourself, because you don’t exist, and there’s nothing you can really do for others, because it’s motivated by self-gain. Of course this is all useless philosophizing. But it’s still fun, I just have to remember it’s pointless. =P
fine, “Ubermensch” then you will do exactly as I demand for the good of the herd…
and nietzsche had as much use for anarchists as he had for christians…
-Imp
no, it is worse than a joke… it is a lie… but you and your ilk will slavishly toil to find your paradise and that’s great. more power to you… it is your greed that drives you.
not at all… you “need” nothing… any thing you take can easily be considered an excessive desire… you breathe too deeply… ate two bites of food instead of the one you “needed”…
you call it selfish as well… but as long as there is no absolute standard of “enough” any amount is easily construed as too much and greedy. period.
que sera sera…
-Imp
I “believe” our biggest downfall is not WANTING nice things and lots of them. It is taking advantage of weaker people to attain this goal and to keep it. There has to be a way to convince others that this is wrong and a self-destructive course. To do so, would mean enforcement would no longer be nessesary. We have to come together and find another way to attain this goal the RIGHT way. Then we also can enjoy it, without worrying constantly about someone trying to take it from us. To be a billionaire right now means you would need alot of “security”, or a big “prison” to live in. Why do people long for that so much? If I went around trying to get myself locked up, I would be called “crazy”, “insane”,
and all sorts of wierd words. But on the flip side, What would happen to all the security people, the government people, and all the other people making a good living from taking advantage of weaker people. Guess they would have to become students of the mechanics, bricklayers, and electricians. I suppose that would be poetic justice. Again I say “If everyone on earth shared everything(including knowledge) Everyone on earth would have it ALL”. That is my dream, and my wish. Is anyone against it?