Will America Collapse Via Economic Crisis/Hyper-Inflation?

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

Okay, so I am about to write out my plan for collapsing the banking cartels, but before I do that I wanted to start a thread that is intended to debate whether or not the economy is going to collapse and why, and whether this would lead to the destruction of our nation. Once we have established that the economy is indeed going to collapse, then my plan for collapsing the banking cartels is going to make a lot more sense.

That being said, I think that the upcoming economic collapse of our country is inevitable. I have several reasons for believing this. First and foremost, there has recently been an increase of approximately ten trillion dollars in the money supply of the United States of America. As many of you know, the recent bailouts costed a lot more then the original figure given. This was undoubtably by design. The original figure was given so that it would not sound so bad. But this was only the minimum amount that the bailout was to cost, not the maximum. As it turns out, it costed more like around 9.3 trillion dollars, and we have no idea where most of that money went.

Well if you know anything about economics, then you know that the larger the money supply is, the less valuable the money becomes. This is known as inflation. The one and only way that money which was spent on the bailout is not going to severely inflate our money supply would be if the recipients of those funds decided to take all of that money and stuff it under their mattresses and never use it. Even if they deposit it in their bank accounts, then the banks are going to take that money and loan it out. Actually, even worse, the banks can then loan out 100 trillion dollars for the ten that was deposited at their establishments since our current fractional reserve banking system allows them to loan out ten times as much money as they actually. have en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Note . So what that amounts to is the promise that the government will extract that sum of what value that money represents directly from your ass! At the moment, I daresay if we all slaved away for our entire lives that value would not be repaid.

Now for those of you that are wondering if that roughly ten trillion dollars is going to be added to our national debt, the answer is no. If you look at our current national debt it is only a little under 11 trillion dollars at the moment brillig.com/debt_clock/ . What actually happened is that new money was printed by the federal reserve in that amount. What that amounts to is that money was more or less stolen directly out of our pockets through a hidden tax known as inflation. It takes about one year for the effect of that theft to register in the economy. So by next November, that new money will be completely gone from our pockets/bank accounts via a loss of purchasing power. In other words, our money will be pretty much worthless by the end of the year. Not completely worthless, but worth a hell of a lot less then it is right now. But as I am about to explain this is not the full picture of what is about to happen.

Now, as many of you probably know, our nation has been operating at a trade deficit for about 40 years. Over time, that trade deficit has increased exponentially to where now our current trade deficit is up to about 1 trillion dollars. What this means is that our complete dependence on foreign trade is now costing us 1 trillion dollars a year. Just so you all have an idea of how much that is, the combined GDP of the entire world is somewhere around 9 trillion dollars. So every 9 years, we lose enough money to account for the production value of the entire world economy. The only reason why we have been able to get away with this is our money is more or less the accepted standard of world currency. What this means is that for the most part, our trading partners just hold onto the currency that we give them and do not spend it. When they do spend it, they usually trade it amongst each other rather then in the U.S. economy. What this does is effectively take it out of our national economy and prevent this money from inflating our economy. So what our government does is print more money to make up for the money lost in trade via our massive trade deficit. The penalty that we take for this is relatively minor since our trading partners are kind enough to take all the extra money printed out of national circulation thereby preventing the inflation that should rightly occur from the increase in our money supply. But here is the real clencher. Since we have now created 10 trillion dollars that is not leaving our economy, our money is going to inflate anyway. Once this starts to become evident, our trade partners are going to be in a rush to get rid of all of their U.S. dollars before they become entirely worthless. They won’t be able to pawn them off on each other since they will all know that the money is about to be worthless. So what they will do is flood our economy with all of this money and buy up infrastructure as fast as possible.

This will be the death blow to the dollar. After this happens, it will be just like in the Weimar Republic of Germany in the 1930’s where a wheelbarrow of $100 bills equals one loaf of bread. The effect will be that all of us will be unable to buy anything. This includes food, fuel, water, anything. Money will be worthless, so no one in their right mind will accept it for any goods which have any value. As such, our country will be in a state of emergency. Nobody will be able to eat, and there will be no potable water readily available. Furthermore, a lot of our trading partners are going to be holding vaults of worthless paper money that they have accumulated over several decades of trading with us, and they will be very unhappy about this fact. Of course they will refuse to send us anymore goods since we have nothing of value to give them in return. So all of the food from other countries will cease as well. As such, there will also be a food shortage. Our government will also be crippled because the only thing it will have to give to anyone in return for service will be U.S. dollars or gold from Fort Knox. Most of the gold is already gone from what I understand, and what is left will be in very high demand. So there will be very little that our government will be able to do about anything, and likely a large portion of government workers will also lose their jobs since there will be no money with any value to pay them with.

So obviously, this is going to be a huge problem for our country. Considering the amount of enemies we have made over the past few decades I daresay at least one of them will take this chance to jump at our throats as well. Hopefully not China, since with our country in shambles they could easily conquer us with an invasion. The Chinese army is now 100 million strong, and China currently has the strongest economy in the world. They may not be as high tech as our military is, but in this case they will not need to be. Unfortunately, us the American people are more or less innocent and have had little to do with the offenses that have been committed by our rogue government. But the rest of the world likely will not see it this way. Even if we don’t get invaded by our enemies, then likely we will be forced to take a new form of currency be that a world currency or a north American currency and thereby forced to sign a treaty that would totally dissolve our national sovereignty. So the ultimate effect of our extremely poor economic policy over the past few decades could very well be the final destruction of our country and the institution of a new world order/world government.

So, any opinions? Do you agree or disagree with my assessment and why?

2

before gobalization, i would’ve more or less agreed with your general outlook

but now the rest of the developed world has such a vested interest in keeping the u.s. afloat, obama may very well be able to turn this crisis into a global effort to overcome

while mccain would’ve ensured world war III in his first term because of the severity of the situation, and his utter lack of understanding

obama may ultimately fail, but i think we have a shot thanks to his extraordinary intellect and charisma

3

China will first commandeer the oil fields.

No body will come to the west’s aid.
(the west US, Britain, Austrialia and maybe Canada)

4

Hmmm. So you think Obama is going to be able to convince other countries to GIVE us money after it is all gone? I don’t think so. Obama’s foreign policy doesn’t seem to be any different then Bush’s. He isn’t bringing the troops home, he is just moving them from Iraq to Afghanistan. In fact, I know several different people who are being sent to the middle east in my town alone. I think he is sending more troops out, not bringing them home. He has to remove them from Iraq, as there is no other alternative. Since his foreign policy is not any different, and it is our foreign policy that pisses the rest of the world off, I don’t see how Obama is going to save us. As a matter of fact, as far as I can tell, the man is a total phony. He promised quite a lot, and thus far has already broken over half of his campaign promises. He is just a smooth talker, nothing else.

You should check out the upcoming film: The Obama Deception. obamadeception.net/

5

So then you think China will start with the north slope of Alaska? I never thought of that, but that is a pretty good likelyhood. The north slope of Alaska has the biggest proven oil field in the entire world. This fact has been hidden by the mainstream media for some time under the direction of BP/ARCO. That would certainly be an easy place to invade for China and there are a shit ton of resources there as well. More valuable resources then anywhere else in the world I daresay. Alaska certainly WOULD be a prize. If we are smart we might sell it to someone for a handsome profit to get some much needed cash. We would still end up getting screwed in the deal though since the resources there are actually worth more then anyone could possibly pay for them.

Here is a speech by the guy that exposed the truth behind the north slope of Alaska. He goes into great detail about it in this presentation: video.google.com/videoplay?docid … 7167011147

6

china and imf are more than willing at present to continue proping up the us economy, since so much is invested in the continuing functioning of us markets and consumption power.

however, we have to recognize that this cannot go on forever-- certainly, these other players recognize this fact as well. at some point, one of two thing will happen: either the us economy will recover to a state of enduring stability and begin generating returns on foreign investments again, or it will not. if not, instability will increase to the point where foreign investment is no longer justified, even in light of their previous financial commitments. dumping us treasury securities onto the market (which is already beginning to occur with increasing speed) would trigger the collapse of the dollar, in terms of exchange rates and purchasing power. this in turn would trigger a near-total collapse of the stock markets, in which trading would be suspended in light of a free-fall.

of course, hyperinflation is a tremendous worry, but since its a worry tomorrow, whereas market collapse of international dollar value is a worry today, the desire to “spend to prosperity” with no goal or rational limits is seen as justified, in light of the “crisis”.

af is referring to globalization and its effects on us economic stability-- it is correct that the us no longer functions even somewhat dependently of global forces and entities. markets are diffuse and pay no heed to national boundaries. interdependence is the new mode of economic structure, one that (barring local or complete collapses) will remain.

we must view the current us situation in light of globalization. the us as an independent entity is no longer a true conception of the situation. the us is part of a global economic network, a system which exists to grow and sustain itself as efficiently as possible. human action exists only as nodes, tiny localized forces in this network. as such, the us economy, if it were to collapse completely, would present the system with a near-fatal blow, one which would likely destabilize massive sectors of first-world economies. production and trade would slow to all but the barest essentials, which would skyrocket in price. starvation and despair would lead to anarchy among the less-authoritative nations of the first-world, and even in some sections of the us.

however, two things are certain about this scenario: first, that the us government, what is left of it as a national entity, will do all in its power to contain the crisis and prevent anarchy and starvation, if only to prevent against losing its grip on power. the image of movement, of economic interactions is what counts-- as long as the people have basic rations and a place to go to work, even organized labor camps or agricultural sectors, order would be maintained. to put it simple, the us cannot put too high a price tag on maintaining order and security within its borders, even if such is little more than illusion.

second, if a collapse did entail massive change in us economic models, international aid would swiftly follow. this “aid” would not be aid at all, but only a pretense to assistance. un and imf/wb forces would converge to replace us sovreignty (what little is left) with more complete international controls. as such, the us would in a sense cease to exist (hasnt it already?)… yet as far as the people, in the short term, are concerned, things would “continue as normal”, with of course some drastic changes in employment and living standards. likely utilities would be drastically curtailed, rations would limit consumption to basic essentials only, and military police units would likely exercize near-total control over cities and counties, particularly in the absence of comprehensive media coverage or higher control.

in short, collapse may occur, it may not-- likely if it is avoided, this stability would only be temporary, as at some point the insolvent nature of us economic models must break through the artificial barriers of debt and foreign aid. but even when this happens, most people will find a way to survive, to adapt. its not you or me that we should be worried about; its the next generation, and the generation after that. our kids and grandkids. they will be the ones who will have to contend with the establishment of nwo policies and truly global power entities, and the new totalitarialism of global power consolidation that will follow. theirs is the world of slavery, terror, death-- likely we in this generation wont have to contend with this new reality within our lifetimes.

we can hope that it will never manifest, but the realities are undeniable. collapse will probably occur, tomorrow or next year or next decade. the real question isnt IF or WHEN, or even WHAT the collapse will entail… the real question is “what will come after?”…

7

Yes, 3X I agree for the most part. Totalitarianism is the main thing I am trying to fight here. But an economic collapse is going to be the tool that they are going to use to make us accept the NWO. Once there is no food to eat anymore they will give us the new monetary system. Either this will be the Amero, or it will be a world currency. Whether it is the Amero or a world currency depends on whether the collapse is local or world wide. If it is indeed world wide they will try to institute a new cashless economic society.

But the totalitarianism will begin pretty quickly. Our country is currently in receivership. Foreign corporations have been buying up our infrastructure for some time. The global carbon tax is on its way. Under this system if I were to drive from Austin, TX to Dallas, TX and back it would cost on average an additional $174 on top of the costs already associated with that drive. But that is just the beginning. The carbon tax will inevitably increase, and will probably eventually be a tax on breathing as well. Breathing produces carbon, and they have already gotten control of water and food, all that is left is air. This is the next logical step. We have to step up and do something.

I am thinking the collapse is going to happen no matter what. And they are not going to rush in and save us immediately. Rather they will offer the Fema camps for “refugees” who want to be fed. They will be given nutritionally devoid genetically modified foods and forced innoculations to “prevent illnesses”. It is possible that they may spread a disease just for this purpose. I don’t know if you heard or not, but the CDC just bought 500,000 plastic coffins which are all piled up by the Atlanta airport: infowars.com/new-legislation … mps-in-us/

You have to connect the dots, and you will figure out that they are up to no good. I am not going to sit down and wait for this crap to happen. If there is going to be a collapse, then there is going to be a collapse. But shouldn’t we have a collapse on OUR terms instead of theirs? I know who controls the U.S. and it isn’t the government. It’s the banks. They are the ones we need to target. If we take them out, then it is like cutting off the head of the enemies of our country. There is a patriot movement in this country that is over 10 million strong. With that many people we can do quite a bit. My solution is non-violent and totally legal, but that is for my next thread. I am not there yet.

Before my idea makes any sense then we have to establish that there is going to be a collapse no matter what, and at very least a bunch of people are going to starve. It will happen no matter what as I see it. And I don’t think the IMF and world bank are going to do shit for us until our national sovereignty is dissolved and we agree to merge with canada and mexico.

So regardless of whether we are invaded or not, our country is going to be conquered. Would you agree with that?

8

the concept of conquest is not really applicable in the new age of globalism. everyone is under one flag; there is no one from “without” to conquer the us, in that sense… of course we still maintain a degree of control over our country via our political leaders, but since no one can be sure to what extent these leaders are puppets for global forces, we must assume the possibility that sovreignty exists in name only…

however, i do not think your scenario is inevitable. people have been predicting these sorts of things for some time, and nwo seems to fail to manifest every time. each new prediction comes along for nwo, for “within the next 3-5 years” or whatever, and then its 7 years, then 10, and nothing happens… yes, ive heard that bluebeam was scheduled for '84 and was postponed due to too much uncertainty in their calculations, in order to wait for a more opportune time. yet such things are inherently conspiratorial in that we dont have any proof or evidence of such things, other than some blog we read online and an overactive imagination. as such, i think its more prudent to interpret current economic crises and political situations FIRST from a naturalistic and simple framework-- after this understanding is gained, and with this new knowledge of various social forces and economic theory, we can go from there and try to extrapolate whether or not there is a “conspiracy”-- whether or not there are still large pieces missing from the puzzle.

if we avoid a realistic rational approach and just jump head-first into this realm of wild speculation, we give up our objectivity, and conceed that we cannot find explanations by simpler means. i think that only AFTER we have understood and exhausted more realistic/natural options can we then begin to make assumptions about nwo, and see where those assumptions lead us.

it is with that caveat in mind that i wrote my previous post, and that i consider these issues at all. the all-too-human tendency to believe the unbelievable, to accept the unknown as real precisely because we are afraid of it, is too strong for me to embrace nwo theory in any form other than conditionals, predicated on pretty substantial assumptions. i think its more important to be rational and realistic in our undertaking of knowledge, rather than far-reaching and fanciful just because those “grand theories” seem more “real” or more explanatory over larger areas…

globalism IS a fact; but as far as assuming nwo or conspiracies, those is an altogether different assumptions. globalism could just be a natural social force, emergent phenomenon arising out of the human need for authoritarian societies combined with psychological forces of conformity/homogenization and the advent of truly global networks of technology and economic interdependence. this is my personal take on globalism, as i have written about extensively on my own. any further or more “sinister” takes on the issue need to be justified with non-circumstantial, non-assumptions based evidence… of course, this doesnt mean we cannot speculate on these possible greater, hidden causes, just as long as we keep in mind the speculative nature of what we are discussing, and not abandon our rational perspectives.

and even IF such conspiracies exist, the only way we are going to gain any real knowledge of them is by refusing to abandon our rational faculties, and by starting with what we DO know for certain, and working, with proper caution, from there.

9

The one economic scenario we should all be afraid of is “Stagflation”,
but given the current situation, I would bet on deflation as being a greater
danger than hyper inflation.

Kropotkin

10

You can name it whatever you want, it is still imperialism. Let’s just call a spade a spade. It may be new age imperialism, but it is imperialism. The idea of uniting the whole world under one flag is not anywhere close to a new one. Everyone from Nimrod to Ceasar to Hitler has had this idea. It is only the method which has changed. The countries of the world are now being conquered from the inside rather then from the outside. The despots of the world have learned from the mistakes of their ancestors, and now they are trying a very different approach so their heads don’t roll off the guillotines too. You should read the quote at the bottom of my signature. That was a real quote by David Rockefeller at a Bilderberg meeting. All of this you can find in his autobiography. amazon.com/David-Rockefeller … 0679405887

See, that is the thing. You think I am speculating about the NWO. I am not. They have come out and admitted it. They are now announcing the new world order. Everything is in their own documents. Furthermore, the mainstream media will not shut up about it. time.com/time/politics/artic … 42,00.html . It’s new world order this, and new world order that. They are getting people used to the idea. You must not be an Alex Jones listener or you would already know this stuff. You should check his show out. It is not just him, he has expert guests, some of whom have inside information about the inner workings of the NWO. Alex and his team have spent over 15 years collecting evidence, and now the mountain is so tall it would take you quite a long time to climb to the top of it.

I know that Alex is not typically the most trusted source of information, but he links to a lot of other sources and uses opinions of people who are more qualified then he. He really is a superb investigative journalist, and he isn’t owned by any corporations. That is rare! He is Christian, and some people object to that too, but I don’t think it at all effects the quality of his journalism. In the past he has had a tendency to exaggerate and take things at face value without further investigation, and he has been called on that. But instead of wining about it he fixed the problem. Like for instance, earlier last week he had found sources that said Magnavox digital converters had cameras and microphones in them. In the past he probably would’ve just cited the source and said “Magnavox digital converters have microphones and cameras in them”. But instead he was like “I heard Magnavox digital cameras have cameras and microphones in them, let’s find out” and then tore one open live on camera on his show. Guess what, no cameras. But it was good investigative journalism, and it needed to be done by somebody. Sure, we can’t believe everything we hear, but nor can we dismiss everything either. Alex investigates these things, and more often then not he finds what he is looking for. It’s something that you have to experience for yourself by tuning in and listening to the show.

As for previous predictions, I was three years old in 1984 so I can’t really speak much on that. But what I do know is that the NWO is only going to make their move only when they have a very high success rate. The recession of the 80’s was nowhere near where we are at now. Funny though that 1984 was supposed to be the date. There may have been something subconscious going on there. But an economic collapse on the scale of the one that is about to ensue is likely the chance they have been waiting for. NWO is just a cover name. What it represents is Fabian socialism, which represents the interests of the banks, which represents the interests of about a dozen prominent individuals/families. The Fabian socialist organization is represented by the turtle which is supposed to represent the slow steady conquering of the world. That is exactly what they have been doing, and that is precisely why the “NWO has yet to manifest”. I has manifest, it has just been a very slow manifestation and is still manifesting as we speak. Now they are stepping it up a bit because people are waking up. They have enough of a grasp to finish it off. But they need the help of an economic crisis.

This is their M.O. They cause the problem, provide a solution they already had tucked in their back pockets, and then institute more world government. Now they are going at it head first. They are training for gun snatching exercises, shutting down the internet as we know it arstechnica.com/security/news/20 … e-zone.ars , and using the army to police and control insurrection locally. What more evidence do we need before we decide to get up off our asses and decide “fuck I need to do something about this!”. Why sit here and wonder what is happening while they unleash biological agents on you and your family and pile your bodies into plastic coffins? We can do something about this, but the first step is to admit that it is indeed happening.

11

Oh please! That is hilarious. Please cite any economic site that suggests that increasing our monetary supply by 10 trillion dollars will cause deflation. The “deflation scare” is just a tactic by the mainstream media (especially Fox) to make people keep quiet about the astronomical wasteful government spending that has been taking place. Look at the price of gold and tell me, is the dollar going up or down. Go to the grocery store and tell me is the dollar going up or down? I have been noting all the products that have gone up in price by about 30%, mostly the ones that were already very cheap. The rest just downsized an ounce or two to make up for it.

12

Oh, and just in case anyone is questioning the 10 trillion thing. I will show you where I am getting this from:

infowars.com/government-bail … -trillion/

sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c … 14C8QR.DTL

Now combine that with Obama’s stimulus pack. Bye Bye Dollar…

bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= … refer=home

13

Peter Kropotkin"]The one economic scenario we should all be afraid of is “Stagflation”,
but given the current situation, I would bet on deflation as being a greater
danger than hyper inflation.

DS: Oh please! That is hilarious. Please cite any economic site that suggests that increasing our monetary supply by 10 trillion dollars will cause deflation. The “deflation scare” is just a tactic by the mainstream media (especially Fox) to make people keep quiet about the astronomical wasteful government spending that has been taking place. Look at the price of gold and tell me, is the dollar going up or down. Go to the grocery store and tell me is the dollar going up or down? I have been noting all the products that have gone up in price by about 30%, mostly the ones that were already very cheap. The rest just downsized an ounce or two to make up for it."

K: actually, more I think of it, the more I suspect deflation as being a greater problem. The great depression during 1930 and 1933 were
a period of deflation and recently three countries have been hit with deflation, Japan during the 1990ties, Hong Kong and Ireland recently.
The problem will arise because the stimulus plan is way too small. In reality, it needs to be about 3 times bigger with no tax cuts and
that might be enough to fight off deflation, maybe.

Kropotkin

14

In 1933 America was still on the gold standard, and the Fed was not yet given the power to make money out of nothing. The difference is whether a government is trying to print themselves out of debt, or just takes their lumps. I would much prefer deflation to inflation. During a deflationary depression those with money get richer, and there is just little work to be had. So what? People still eat and life goes on. During a hyper-inflationary depression those that have money already go broke immediately, nobody can buy food even if they want to. Having a job does you little if any good. It is much, much worse. We have Russia, Argentina, and the 1930’s Weimar Republic as examples for that. Are you just going to ignore them?

Now, please show me any economic expert that thinks spending our way out of debt is a real fix. It won’t happen.

15

Of course a good old fashioned revolution would be the easiest way to clear out the debts. With all the military commited to the middle east it wouldn’t even be that hard. I would suggest a division into three or four regional states to furthure confuse our debtors who they should try to collect the cash from.

16

You are assuming that the us had intentions of paying back the borrowed money.

17

great posts dream, thanks for citiing so much evidence and links. i am actually aware of everything you mentioned, including alex jones, rfid, fema camps, constitution-free zones, etc. i personally find the idea of bluebeam fascinating, that they could actually be using haarp and satelites, along with the increased heavy metals in the atmosphere due to 10 years of chemtrails, to generate holograms in the sky of ufos and christ and stuff… combined with known mind-control technology and coaxial access to every home, we could all be made to think jesus has returned again, and that the last battle between earth and aliens is upon us. who knows? i tend to think that theories such as they are likely just covers, incredible stories to keep us distracted from the real truth, whatever that is. to me, it seems more likely that area 51 has nothing to do with ‘aliens’, and that the govt just uses that as a smoke-screen for the public (along with abductions and sighting, which govt likely does all on its own).

and i certainly see all around how the elites like to flaunt everything theyre doing. examples like pnac, time’s articles, fox news (all the news), gordon brown’s speech, rockefeller (nice quote btw-- check out the quotes from kissinger, those are really scary), etc show us that they are indeed bragging, shoving it in our faces. that is their brilliant plan, and it works so well. they dont hide what they do, they announce it before hand (such as 9/11 attacks via cia training manuals) and afterwards, but they do it in such a way that everyone hears about it, yet its not given “official” recognition, so everyone thinks its a rumor or a myth… but they are mocking us. in this way, our power is negated, because we know whats happening, yet dont believe it, so when someone comes alone with evidence (like you or alex) we tend to dismiss it out of hand, since its no longer extraordinary or new information, just stuff weve heard debunked and dismissed all the time.

i accept most of what youre saying, i believe that its likely true. however, i still reserve two things: 1) i dont KNOW if most of those things are really true, and 2) even if they are, we likely only know 10% of the truth anyways, since what we think we know is likely part misinformation, and the real truth is likely still hidden or disguised. so even though i accept most of what youre saying as possible and even likely, i still recognize that there is A LOT more to the story than we immediately are aware of, and i reserve a good deal of skepticism.

btw, you should check out http://www.thecleaver.blogspot.com/ there is a ton of good info on there, and a lot of good advice as well. personally i dont worry about nwo stuff, im just not one to panic or be anxious over things like that. i do have food saved, i am talking with a friend about getting some guns and ammo stocked and getting gardens planted at his house, so we can be self-sufficient as long as possible, but thats precautionary… i think its smart to take such measures, but also to realize that it isnt worth it spending your time and energy stressing or worrying about things you cant change. we dont KNOW for SURE that any or even most of this stuff is true, and even IF it is, theres likely nothing we can do about it, other than trying to prepare on a personal level. so i prefer to keep living my life, and just keep an open ear to see the signs of what might be coming. and i have to say, anyone who looks around and sees whats happening today in the world must AT LEAST recognize the possibility and appearance of nwo on the edge of the horizon…

but like i said, salvation lies in personal actions, individual spiritual self-actualization and enlightenment. our evolutionary task is not to spend our lives fighting a corrupt and evil system of global totalitarianism, it is to overcome and surpass that negative stuff as unimportant, at least from a higher perspective. check out The Cleaver, he does a great job putting things into perspective… and read The Stellar Man by John Baines, i think it would also help keep things in perspective, whats really important and what is illusion. in the end, even if nwo theories are all true, if we spend our lives and energy worrying, stressing, fighting that system, our resources and mental strength are being sucked right out of us, away from what they should be doing, which is seeking self-actualization and higher knowledge, an enlightened viewpoint and state of mind. nwo is something we need to be aware of, we might need to contend with in the future, but for now its not something that should take all our attention and energy, otherwise we are letting them win. positive energies, positive thinking and higher awareness are the best weapons we have against such threats, and when we lose ourselves in trying to fight that which is unfightable, we condemn ourselves to a losing battle where our life and soul never accomplish what they are really here for.

18

Dreamscaper,

While I am not exactly pleased with the work that President Obama has done so far I believe it a stretch to say that he is broken this or that amount of his campaign promises. I do not recall any speech where Obama said, “Within a month and a half of my inauguration I will…” so at least give Obama half of his term before you write him off as a liar. The obvious counter is to come up with a few examples of promises he has broken, as I am sure you can do, that being the case, I would not suggest that President Obama has not or will not break ANY promises, just simply that I do not believe he will break half of them.

That said, despite your impressive degree of economic knowledge, you fail to look at war from an economic standpoint. There are many historical cases (I will cite a few upon request) in which economies have thrived as a result of war and not in spite of war. War is greatly beneficial to the manufacturing sector of the economy as it creates the need for goods of war to be produced. It is also beneficial to the agricultural sector as it creates the need for food to be produced and shipped. Basically all basic economic sectors benefit from the existence of war to some extent.

Additionally, you must consider jobs. These guys that are going off to do the fighting are drawing paychecks and the majority of that money goes into the economy, this is especially true when the soldier is economically supporting (or aiding in the economic support of) families at home. If there were no war currently going on, then many of the soldiers would be placed on reserve duty and if they drew a paycheck at all, it would be for far less. An inevitable result, of course, would be more individuals and families living in part or in entirety off of state assistance. Such a thing would also inevitably cause less bills to be paid and the foreclosure rate to go up for those soldiers who own houses.

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Well I somewhat agree, and believe me, I am resentful that I have to spend my time and energy on such things. But I do have to. I can’t sit by and let it happen because there is too much at stake. I believe very firmly in free will, and I will never let humanity fall into total irrevocable slavery. I think this may be the turning point here. If we can prevent this from happening then we will build a bright future for our grandchildren and all of humanity. But if we lie down and let it happen then humanity will be such a dark and disgusting thing that in all fairness it will deserve to be wiped out. Here we can go one way or the other. And I feel strongly enough to do everything I can from making humanity disgusting.

That being said, I think you are giving up too easily. You think there is nothing one man can do to make a difference. Inevitably, it is almost always one man that does. In this case I have an idea that will destroy the banking system and there would be nothing they could do to stop this from happening. All it would take is roughly 20% of our populous acting in unison. People do not realize how fragile the system is that is set up to control us. They control us with fear, but it only takes 1/5 of us to stand up and say “I’m tired of being afraid!” to topple the whole thing. People are already starting to lose everything, and as soon as they realize that the whole system is doomed they will be ready to stand up together without fear. We are the most dangerous right now. They have scared us so much that we are like frightened animals backed into a corner.

I have a comprehensive plan regarding how to accomplish this 100% non-violently and legally, but before I stick my neck out and post it on the internet I want to think about what I am doing and see how much people have woken up. Timing is crucial. One of the things I need to be able to convince people that this is a good plan is total undeniable proof that this country’s economy is toast. Without everyone’s agreement that the economy is toast, it would be pretty much impossible to get people to agree to do what I am suggesting should be done since it is 100% guaranteed to toast the economy. BUT, by doing this we would be in much better shape then if we did not. That I can prove so long as everyone is in agreement that a hyper-inflationary great depression is on the way.

Yeah, the aliens thing is just a bullshit distraction from whatever they were really working on at area 51 and other similar sites.

This is precisely what they want you to think. I assure you there is something that we can do about it. In fact, we could destroy the NWO with very little effort on our parts. Most of the effort would go towards organizing/coordinating the collapse of the NWO, and picking up the pieces afterwards. The actual act of collapsing the system would take hardly any effort at all. I think that they know this vulnerability of which I speak exists which is why they spend so much time and effort propagandizing and brainwashing people. But I think I know how to break that grasp over people. It’s not going to break it on everyone, but just enough to get the job done…

BTW, I AM sure about the NWO. I have seen too much evidence to deny it. I remained skeptical up until a point. After that certain point you just have to assume that it is real just like we assume that perception is evidence of reality. I have noticed that there is no one on TV saying “the NWO isn’t real”. There are a few that say it is, and then people in the general public that deny it, but nobody who comes out and publicly says “there is no new world order”. Not even they can lie that much.

You might want to check out this book which is online that explains quite a bit about the banking system and how the whole entire thing is controlled by the same people: fourwinds10.com/siterun_data … 1235166250

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PAV, he broke some of his campaign promises before he even got elected. Most notably his stance on civil liberties and promise to reduce government spending. I was actually considering voting for him in the primaries, and I went to his website and Hillary’s and discovered that his “fiscal policy” was was better then Hills who said very little about it. He promised to reduce the national debt and government spending. He also said he was against government spying, and the patriot acts. After beating Hills by a narrow margin he voted yes for the fisa amendment act which gave blanket pardons for companies and government agencies that illegally spied on American citizens, and furthermore legalized all government spying in the name of “fighting terrorism”. Under this new bill, Nixon would not have even been charged with a crime. Next, as you probably know, he was one of the biggest proponents for the November bailouts. Without his help I don’t think they would have ever passed. So he was almost directly responsible for 8.5 trillion dollars being stolen before he even took office.

In addition to that he has broken all of the following promises in the first 30 days of his campaign:

  1. Make Government Open and Transparent
  2. Make it “Impossible” for Congressmen to slip in Pork Barrel Projects
  3. Meetings where laws are written will be more open to the public
  4. No more secrecy
  5. Public will have 5 days to look at a Bill
  6. We will put every pork barrel project online

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5t8GdxFYBU[/youtube]

The first major piece of legislation that he introduced “the stimulus package” broke all of these promises at once. What is worse, he rushed this piece of legislation through in a frenzy, only giving congress a few hours to read the bill which was thousands of pages long and amended hundreds of pieces of legislation and made no sense unless you had a copy of the U.S. Code right in front of you and referenced every line with the corresponding piece of code in the U.S. code. He said this was necessary because the bill was “SO URGENT”. But then he went on a vacation and did not even sign it until almost a week later.

The guy is seriously the biggest liar I have ever laid my eyes on. And now people are being arrested for criticizing him. Today Alex had a guy on his show that was arrested for having an anti-Obama bumper sticker on his car. I daresay Obama is actually worse then Bush.

Finally, regarding the war, you are not looking at the full story economically. Where do you think the money to pay for the war comes from? The government. Where does the government get it’s money? From us or by borrowing from international bankers. So in other words, the only way a war actually produces money is if the government borrows it. The same few banking cartels have been financing the wars for centuries. They finance both sides and collect massive profits. It is an old trend. In order to actually improve the economy and bring in real new money, not just debt, you have to produce something useful and sell it to other countries. You can look at it like this: war adds to the national debt. Some of that money that is added to the national debt goes into the pockets of American soldiers, workers, and arms dealers. It could be compared to struggling to pay your bills and taking out a huge loan to pay them with the promise to kill someone as part of the deal. That is why it APPEARS to help the economy. It is a quick shot in the arm, but it does us no good in the long run. In this case it will do absolutely nothing since war cannot in any way fix a hyper-inflated currency.