Winners and Losers

A loser is always a pessimist. Why is a pessimist always a loser because he keeps on failing so he only sees failure. A winner is always an optimist because he sees the opportunity to win, while keenly aware of the dangers.

So when anyone sees anyone else complaining, being sad, without a hope in life all the time. then that person is a loser and is useless.

A winner wins all the time and knows how to win. A loser knows only how to lose. The reason there is so much suffering in this world is because most of the world have the loser mentality. All they see is despair, and if they have no example of winning then they are not capable of winning.

To win, you must work hard, think hard, love hard, hate hard, to take life to the extreme.

I don’t know why I continue to metaphorically snort battery acid by talking to you over and over… but, nonetheless here we go again.

PoR, I play basketball. Now while I’m sure you find that inferior because it’s a sport which mixes different races… but just accept it for this example.

There have been games (they don’t happen a whole lot) where my team and I have come ready to play, we’re in shape, prepared and while on the court we run our plays with a fair amount of proficiency and efficiency. Hitting the open shots we take, and taking good shots.

Regardless of all this seemingly good play on our parts… sometimes the other team is just on fire. It’s infuriating because they are perhaps not even running things as good as my team, but they’re just hitting lucky shots, and getting the calls and stuff.

In that type of situation, it sucks to loose… but you really cannnot say you could have done anythin better. Sometimes you just loose. You might complain sure… it is not unjustified to complain in those types of situations.

Some of the best players I know are pessimists.

“We should have won by more… I suck, I don’t know why I can’t do things better” - I hear the winners saying things like that.

The optimistic are often the shitty coaches that sit around saying things like “well… maybe things will be better tomorrow” where the pessimist says 'things will NOT be better tomorrow… that’s why we need to train harder" etc.

Your thinking, as alwlays - is black and white. Is that how you see everything, instead of just races?

Basketball is not inferior just people different people of different races play together, the world has many races but that does not make living on earth inferior. the fact you used this analogy goes to show you have not understood me.

You are basically saying luck has a play in a person’s life, so some good people lose, which is true. but that does not stop it being a fact that they are losers. you may have played your best, but lost, the fact you tried your best has nothing to do with the fact that you lost.

We all win and lose. What I mean by losers are people who lose continuously. so all they see is this black chasm of despair and depression. once they fall in, they never come back. so they remain losers for the rest of their life. while winners see the silver lining all the time, so they triumph over adversity and they ascend, they win all the time and they are always optmistic because they see the opportunity which the losers can not see because they lose all the time.

I don’t see that as being pessimistic. The person is a winner because he sees OPPORTUNITY for improvement. He always looks up and never look down, so he always goes up. He is a winner but he does not know it!

that’s not optmism because he knows things will not be better. so he says ‘maybe’ uncertainty is the characteristic of a half loser. a real pessimit would say, ‘i can never win’.

the optimist would say, ‘things won’t be better tomorrow, if we don’t train harder today!’

All I am trying to do is to give to those willing to listen what I myself found out from reading philosophy, theology, meditation, sitting on park benches what a man of 60 could not grasp. I unlike others can understand Hitler and I try my very best to help those who want to be helped. People can say whatever they like about me, and they always do. I am often misunderstood, but the reality as I see it is harsh, and as human beings we are to triumph and be winners, and struggle against fate.

I would say, sometimes it is better to practice basketball by yourself, if you are not already doing so. You want to be better than everyone else and stand out as a hero! You don’t just want to be another player.

Despite your loses, you do not give up and you will win!

Ok… look at it this way.

To refer to ‘winners and losers’ in life is to talk about some sort of competition. This can be anything… basketball, darts, debating, whatever.

The one thing that is NOT a competition is a person’s career, or place in society. Some simply choose to persue other paths than money and fame - they are the smart ones. Now… that aside let’s just assume that life is a game, ok fine.

Let me tell you about my experiences playing basketball… I’ve won our league championship, it was wicked… but for me, as someone who plays basketball as a sport… instead of revovling my life around it, I was indifferent… I was happy, but not emotional in any real sense. That is because I know that the real ‘winning’ comes through playing. I would rather think about my play during the game, not holding the championship trophy.

The goal is in playing. A sporting arena is the perfect society, its rules are absolute, and so it forces the players to become more and more displined in order to win, but the fun comes in the creativity of your play… that mental state. That state is the reason for playing, just like the reason for life is living it. The guy I’m dunking on (while inferior in that situation, and likely overall) still get pleasure from the game even if he does not win.

The thing is, life isn’t a competition, it’s a series of mini competitions. You may ‘fail’ at the career path, but succeed in being a good father, having an excellent taste in music, whatever else. What if ‘making it’ in the world is the only good thing you ever do? It’s all about perception, the winners you see can really be losers… the pessimists, the optimists. It’s all subjective, some people place more importance into fashion than their own careers.

You can’t simplify things like this. To make these blanketstatements like you do is not philosophy, it’s you making blanketstatements and then you using logic only where you want to to defend the positions.

“metaphorically” saves you from that “categorical” mistake, OG: winners and losers. Nice overture. :smiley:

Good chat from the both of ya.

goodnight guys.

I think that maybe PoR is just getting jumped on because he’s PoR and not because he said something stupid this time (not that you’re really jumping on him, Gobbo).

PoR, you’re right that pessimism can be detrimental to the chances of victory in anything if you allow it to blind you from seeing what you do well, or how you can do well. In pretty much any sport you do have to know what your weaknesses are and how you can improve, but it is also important to recognize strengths of individual players and know where to place them to take advantage of those strengths. Many people have many different ideas of what optimism and pessimism mean. When I see the “optimism,” I think “optimize,” or make more efficient by taking advantage of the good parts. By that definition, optimism is never really bad, but it is also pretty much always best accompanied by an honest look at the faults of the item in question.


but you said before that it suxs to lose.

In life, we can’t always be winners, so you are right. But we are winners in what we want to accomplish. If all you want is to play, for the sake of playing then you are a winner if you have fun. Other people are winners in their own right, like the Saints.

pxc and Old_Gobbo

I want everyone who read my threads to become winners. that is why I am posting, this shows that I still care about everyone. I believe that whoever comes to a philosophy forum is ‘willing’ to learn, and so I am going to teach to the best of my ability. This is the ‘could’ ‘would’ distinction. Everyone here want to know, so I am willing to let you know. One must knock first, before the door can be opened, as the Lord sayth.

I have found out, that in life, one must win. I used to adopt the same tactics people here are using and defend the losers, or in another words finding an excuse for them.

A person is a success if two are present. 1. He wants to be a success. 2. He knows the ‘how’. The poor person either does not want to be rich, or want to be rich but does not know how. I help the poor in the second instance.

I know this sound harsh, I prefer a softer version of life myself and I wish it on everyone so that they do not have to suffer. I know I have a notorious reputation so whatever I say people are against me. But this is exactly what I want. I want people to fight me, in this way you know me better. One always knows one’s enemy better than one’s friend.

I want to say as much as I can before I go back to work, when I may only visit you all once a week. So let us treasure the little time we have together and FIGHT!

All I have to say is that the world just ain’t that black and white. Only the very small extremes of society either win all the time or lose all the time. For the rest of us, say those of use within four standard deviations of the norm, we win some and we lose some and we tie a lot too. We are pessimistic sometimes and optimisitic sometimes and just plain neutral a lot of the time. Thus your claim about winners and losers is almost nil in its practical application.

Also, being pessimistic doesn’t necessarily mean you will give up and fail at everything; rather, a pessimist could trudge on fatalistically and possibly even succeed greatly–but if he’s a pessimist, the success probably won’t mean anything to him. Likewise, and optimist may fail continually, but because of his optimistic disposition, he doesn’t see his failure as failure.

However, I do agree on an emotional level that hard work and passionate feelings are preferable for me to laziness and apathy. But I’d be loathe to prescribe my preference become a universal rule.

PoR, you ought to have realized by now that your statements appear both radical and irrational to a great many of us, and if you expect not to be told such and called to account for why you make them, your expectations are going to be dashed time and time again. Perhaps this is not the forum to deliver your message in; with each radical statement you make, you seem to be irritating people more and more, or possibly just irritating more people. Not me per se, I don’t take things personal and I try not to let my opinions of people bias my interpretation of their arguments. But a lot of people here are not so charitable.

That said, Old Gobbo, your jabs at PoR’s character and prejudices do not help your case against him. If you see him as biased and irrational, don’t sink to that level and bias yourself against him, and especially don’t resort to irrational ad hominems.

I honestly don’t believe PoR as he presents himself… I get the feeling he’s someone’s character.

That’s the reason for the jabs… because it’s not actually a discussion in my mind, it’s a… fictional story if you will.

:astonished: Wow, that never occurred to me. Do you suspect another forum member? That would be a riot. I think I’d have to retire from all discussion forums if that was the case!

It happens frequently, and I tend to like it.

I also now think that POR is a comedy character.

I’ve grown to think that it’s me and like three other people on the site.

=D> Ya know, you were first on my list of suspects…but who else??

You—may be me!

No, I have no other personalities on the site.


this is so hypocritical. if you want to be a loser, then why don’t you just abandon your debate.

you are becoming incomprehensible. if you want to be a pessimistic loser, then fine. I want to be optmistic because I am a winner and I want to win. stop teaching others to lose so you can win.

I don’t care what the rest of you think. I only help those whom ‘I’ deem to be worthy.

so you like being a loser then?

Stop your hypocrisy, do you want to be a winner or a loser?

you want to turn Old_Gobble into a loser, you want him to feel that losing is ok, and that he does not have to try in life. I want him to WIN. and try hard!

You are a dispicable liar! and hypocrite, are you offended if I call you a loser!

I want to be a winner all the time. i want to be happy, and I want to see optimism. stop teaching others to lose you LOSER!

To a four-year old, Einstein is incomprehensible.

I think you ARE a comedy-character, PoR. A very well-drawn parody. I think I’ll join what appears to be the majority of this forum and stop taking you seriously. Ha ha, go be a winner! Whatever the hell that means…

I don’t agree with the statement that pessimism is always related with loosers as well as optimism with winners. I’m a realist by myself and sometimes I see the good or the bad part of the things, but nevertheless I win most of the competitions. Yes, optimism tempers and improves your spirit, but that isn’t sure that pessimists are all time loosers.

if pessimism was always bad and resulted in loosers, evolution would have weeded it out dont u think? its serves a purpose as the flip side to optimism, sometimes its best not to go for it and conserve energy.

no i dont think we should chase that anelope we’ll never catch it lets eat these bugs until a better oppotunity arrises,
no i dont think we can ‘take’ the lion’ lets stay out of sight til its gone’
what if the crop fails we should have a contingency plan

most people are not all optimists or completely pesimistic but a balance of the two.t in a group of people some people are more optimist some more pessimistic so when a discussion ensues about a particular decision hopefully with arguments from inside reason and logic will win the day. the winners are the people who play the probalbilities. that or they are lucky F*****s. winners know when to gamble and when not too
oppy and pesi the flip side to the same coin and that coin is judgement

sure the optimist is great fun to be around but when the optimist gets eaten by the lion im gonna have his woman


I said before, that time is never represented independantly of the physical. hey, Harry Potter, why don’t you create some new experiences with language? why don’t you use language and create some new reality for me? hahahahah. you are such a joke.

Einstein is not incomprehensible, he is wrong.

The problem I have with you is that you are trying very hard to make everyone think losing is ok because we win and we lose. it is a fact of life. I say I win ALL the time. so I am always optmistic. so I never lost a debate. it is always such a case that people like you says, I am smarter than you, or that I won the debate and vanish. it just leaves others wondering.

ok, nice to meet you. have fun losing, loser!


I am a winner.


  1. I don’t believe in evolution
  2. pessimism is a mode of thought. it is an idea, a philosophy if you like. so you can’t biologically destroy a philosophy but only with my winner mentality.

true, but as you said it is ‘sometimes’

anyway, I am a winner and I know how to win. and I hope you won’t end up taking up igliashon’s incomprehensible loser philosophy.


Ok… PoR, you can argue intelligent design… fine, but evolution exists. It may be predetermined… but things evolve, that’s a fact.

This could just be a semantical point, but maybe you meant to say you don’t believe in ‘random’ mutation.


I want to let you and everyone else in on a secret.

When I was at school, about 6 years ago. I was a jerk just like igliashon. I was the top jerk of my class. I came first in everything, I am the ace. I studied so hard and so furious and I spoke so much wisdom that I made others lose hope. I told others not to study because they won’t beat me in exams anyway. I told them that winning matters not because life is meaningless. I don’t know if I ruined anyone’s life.

then i found Jesus, even if you don’t believe in Him. Treat Jesus as a teacher, as a man who loved us so much that he died so we may believe in his message. Imagine, someone who does not know me, died for me. I do not know you either, in person. and I will get no reward from you from helping you. but I follow my Lord’s example. I repent my sins, the wrongs I did to my class mates. and I am guilty and I pray for forgiveness.

so I will devote the rest of my life to not just help the poor, as I childishly believed but to help those who would help themselves.

after all, you must knock before it can be opened.