Worth of College Education-Debate

I don’t know how successful this would be because there are a lot of people out there with Mr. Wadhwa’s mentality. Thing is, a lot of people ARE buying the status value!
I don’t know how many times I’ve heard from people, upon first meeting them, how educated they are (this is one of the first things that comes out of their mouths), as if saying: And so you know, I am not just anybody - I have a Bachelor’s Degree in History!

Depends what you mean by ‘elevate’. If you mean ‘prepare for a life of ruling’ then yes, their purpose was to elevate.

I’m sure he went to the local equivalent.

Wilde is a great example - why you suppose aestheticism or ‘art for art’s sake’ became so popular around that time? It was part of an unfolding idolatry, to my mind. It is part of this whole worship of symbols and representations, instead of worshipping the thing they symbolise or represent. For example, the constitutional fundamentalists. They love the US constitution, and hardly talk of the values espoused within the constitution. Or the Catholics, with their obsession with images and statues of the virgin Mary and Jesus Christ. It is the image, the idol, that is worshipped, not a morality or set of values or philosophy or politics or whatever. This became the society of the spectacle, where in forging our identity we basically consume symbols. The logical conclusion to this, the alienation suffered under hyperreality, is the consequence of the inherent superficiality of idol worship. ‘Art for art’s sake’ is the philosophy fed to the bourgeoisie as a justification for idolatry, and helped create this whole capitalist-symbol-consumerist culture we now have.

I could get into Ruskin and Arnold as similarly freemasonic figures to Wilde, I wouldn’t have thought I had to touch Lewis Carol in that respect, I don’t really know who Drayton was. Anyway, the point is not that everyone who goes to Oxford ends up becoming a dictator, but that they all feed into an aristocratic ruling class system. Some of them more deliberately and knowingly than others. Fundamentally, ask yourself why it is that of all the people in Oscar Wilde’s graduating year, he was the one who pretty much everyone on this forum will have heard of. He’s funny, but he’s not that funny.

You mean fascism? Eliminating the weak?

No, you don’t mean that, or at least you don’t intend that.

‘Enlightened to a certain degree’ - exactly :unamused:

Like I said, teach the people to read so they can read your propaganda. Enlighten them just enough that it is worth your while, but not any further. Why do you think logical fallacies, entrepreneurial skills, critical thinking, the fundamental scientific method are almost never taught in schools? Why is it that to even hear people talking about these things you have to borrow a fuckload of money and go to university? By that point you’ve had typically 18 or more years of indoctrination, of being taught that to learn is to have someone else tell you something and then you believe it.

I think you are being idealistic, and falling into the very trap Jefferson is laying with this cryptic comment. Jefferson is not talking about a free people, but a people who wrongly think they are free.

I’m with you on that.

I’ll keep posting the link to this site here because it’s basically the best site on the internet:

This guy teaches as he learns, and makes a living off it. He does interviews, videos, radio shows, makes all sorts of educational media with all kinds of people. Explores history, philosophy, politics, crime, loads of stuff. Now, the content might be a bit ‘conspiracy theory’ for a lot of people but I can’t fault the guy’s approach.

I agree with you that you need other people to learn off, bounce ideas off, argue with, all that. I just don’t think universities or even schools are a good place to learn that. They are too stratified, hierarchy is too ingrained into the way they operate. When I was at school it didn’t matter that much to me because I was near the top of the hierarchy - smart, tall, strong. But it still bothered me that it was basically a ‘wear uniforms and compete with each other within boundaries we define, until the bell rings and then you go somewhere else and do the same thing in a different teacher’s room’. Within that culture there isn’t much hope for genuine learning.

He wrote plays praising the aristocracy. Most of the women in his plays, like the women in Hitchcock films, either get raped or killed. Or both.

He didn’t go to Oxford, did he?

There is more to Plato than that, yes. I’m not saying don’t read the books, if anything I’m saying don’t worship the people who supposedly wrote the books, or the process that led to us knowing that they supposedly wrote them. After all, intellectual idols are no different to other kinds of idols.

I just mean education that continues after school. I think the same thing about schools - I would happily abolish the public education system. I’d be even happier if it was taken over by some particularly kind hearted offshoot of the Occupy movement. Ideally, it isn’t about getting jobs but about encouraging people and giving them the skills to create their own jobs by providing things to other people that those people find useful. Whether it is medical care or sock puppets doesn’t make that much difference to me.

When you go to school in the UK you learn a bit of biology, just enough to make you think eugenics sounds quite cool if you’re selected as part of the elite who survives, but not enough to realise that nutrition is the key to good health, rather than pharmaceuticals. Hence, you end up taking pharmaceuticals created by companies and governments with a long history of being eugenicists. When you get to university you’re borrowing money so you can learn how to make money from processes such as teaching kids enough biology to think eugenics might be a good idea but not enough biology to understand they are being poisoned. At no point are you ever given the skills to a) recognise what’s happening b) react with justified moral revulsion and c) do something about it. That is wholly deliberate, a honed and refined process over the last couple of centuries.

Ha, ha! Good one. That’s funny. :smiley:

A Bachelor’s Degree in History is sounding pretty good actually, because my BA is in Special Ed, and I’m supposed to have special expertise in that beautiful nation of souls formerly called “retarded people”. Imagine me at the cocktail party.

“Ahem! Yes, well, I’m not just anybody, I’m an expert in being retarded!”


Are we afraid of our own intelligence so we must rely on the public education?

I’m afraid of the lack of intelligence in the world and I think education should be compulsory until people are smart enough to not do stupid things all the time and to support themselves.

I dont believe in the lack of worth with the whole “educating” of common people beyond highschool. Unlike Germany and switzerland, the only thing actually being produced in this country is food. There is no way in hell that men of the north (west) states can survive without higher education (unless you live with your parents). it is CRUCIAL for men in these parts if the states to take part in college educations whether they want to or not. the only exceptions to these pitiful rules would be people that come from dynasties in a certain field (ie your father owns a chain of restaurants or auto repair shops). This would still require vocational school training prior to entering thie field (after all, there is no such thing as years of on site training where you get paid). :eusa-violin:

This is a good question.

Sometimes I will say something - for instance recently I self-diagnosed myself as having a wheat allergy/sensitivity. It took me a while to figure it out, but when I eat any wheat at all, I get sort of these subtle hives. Pretty straightforward, right? Sure the doctor might be able to give me additional info, but I think I have the bulk of it figured out. - So anyways my family (and this happens with other people in other discussions) refuses to accept that I could make a (medical) determination like that.

“Well how do you know it’s wheat?”
“Watch, I’ll eat this bread, and then later I will have hives.”
“Yeah, but… you know, how do you really know?”

Basically just refusing to accept that I could be the authority on something without credentials. I picked this particular example because of the steaming hot irony of someone telling you that you cannot be the authority on the interior of your fucking body. And I think this raises an important philosophical point, and not so much about knowing, or certainty, but with regards to identity, and notions of self. How do most people conceptualize themselves as part of the world? It seems like a mirroring of the corporate model, where being correct is something that is state-determined.

Gobbo what determines what the state determines?

It’s like a big wheel that they spin and then it stops on a value.

You know, I think this is actually correct.