Would the ‘ideal’ of a perfect, all loving God approve of the Hebrew and Christian God Yahweh? No, the ideal of God would not approve of God if the old testament is a true accounting of Yahweh. The evidence shows that the God of the monotheists as written in the bible is a man made story, whether it is the story of Jesus or the God Yahweh of the Hebrews.
I write this after being a Catholic for 50+ years. What caused my change in heart about God? Was it God’s refusal to answer a self centered prayer…No. Was it all the evil in the world…No. My change in heart with my belief in God came from ‘real study’ of the dogma and the books claimed to be the written words of God with a desire to get closer to God. But, the more I studied, the further from God my studies took me. But this is only a by product of the study of truth, for if the study leads to a certain direction one must follow it, if one is truth based. And if one is not truth based one makes up fantasy and excuses and lives a delusional life.
If we look at logical and philosophical arguments for God they add up to zero as each one of these arguments can be argued for or against God
Ontological Argument +
Ontological Argument (–)
Cosmological Argument +
Cosmological Argument (–)
Teleological Argument +
Teleological Argument (–)
Total = ZERO
As such, we need to look deeper into what the various religions of the monotheist say to find the truth. There are four books claiming to be the word of God. they are the Old Testament, New Testament, Qur’an and the Book of Mormon. (OT, NT, Q and BOM) All these books conflict, yet all claim to be the perfect word of God? Why doesn’t God make clear which one of these books to follow so there is no misunderstanding? After all, a mistake in direction yield everlasting torture in hell? Since God wont answer, we will have to answer for God by asking some questions to get at the truth that God was invented by man. In short we will judge God by the ideals of God. Then we can see clearly these words of God were not written by an all perfect and all loving, all good God but were just written by men claiming to be God.
Some religious advocates say it is presumptuous of anyone to ‘judge’ God. But, such persons also judge God when they say God is good? In order to judge something good it must still be judged? From my studies, I have judged God as a creation or fantasy of man’s mind and a God that would refuse to tell the direction for a person to take and then take joy in torturing that person for a mistake that the person could not avoid is definitely bad.
God was no always so silent with direction. If we go back to the OT we can see God communicated extensively with the Hebrews. God directed them specifically with how to design and build things and how to worship him through burnt offerings and penance. God was very detailed with his directions about unclean women during menses and how the Hebrews should keep their slaves. All quotes courtesy of evilbible.com/ (BTW, they banned me from their forums…so much for freethinkers.)
“When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.” Exodus 21:20-21
God approving of slavery? God not approving of the Egyptians keeping slaves yet is OK for the Hebrews to keep slaves? Again not a perfect God. If we read further we will see God very bigoted and condemning of all other nationalities except his chosen people the Hebrews. What makes the world think such a bigoted God would accept them when God had such hatred for others he supposedly created?
If we go to more modern times and the Christian dogma where God offered his son to be tortured and killed in order for God to forgive our sins? What do we do when we forgive another? Do we kill our son or daughter or just forgive? How much more a perfect God could have just forgiven us without killing his son? But God seemed to emphasize the killing children in his words to his faithful as we can see in these OT quotes.
“Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” Ezekiel 9:5-7
“The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.” O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don’t give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, “All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children.” Hosea 9:11-16
“Suppose a man has a stubborn, rebellious son who will not obey his father or mother, even though they discipline him. In such cases, the father and mother must take the son before the leaders of the town. They must declare: ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious and refuses to obey. He is a worthless drunkard.’ Then all the men of the town must stone him to death. In this way, you will cleanse this evil from among you, and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid.” Deuteronomy 21:18-21
What happened to this vocal God that seemed to die with the authors of the Old Testament, for no one ever hears a peep from God? Did God die with the writers? BTW, if God was a perfect designer, should he have not made women ‘unclean’ and not have menses and that way God could have saved some breath and cut his 600+ commandants to the Hebrew down by one? See: members.ozemail.com.au/~adamgosp/otcomm.htm
God even commanded the people how to bake bread, (with human excrement) discriminate against the handicapped, kill the faithful of other religions and how much money to pay to rape young women.
Each day prepare your bread as you would barley cakes. While all the people are watching, bake it over a fire using dried human dung as fuel and then eat the bread. For this is what the LORD says: “Israel will eat defiled bread in the Gentile lands, where I will banish them!” Then I said, “O Sovereign LORD, must I be defiled by using human dung? For I have never been defiled before. From the time I was a child until now I have never eaten any animal that died of sickness or that I found dead. And I have never eaten any of the animals that our laws forbid.” “All right,” the LORD said. “You may bake your bread with cow dung instead of human dung.” Ezekiel 4:12-15
“No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may be admitted into the community of the Lord.” Deuteronomy 23:2
“If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.” Deuteronomy 22:28-29
“If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst.” Deuteronomy 13:7-12
Yes, the writers for God’s word will be able to show you how the God they claim to be perfect is not perfect and just an extension of imperfect man’s mind. If you read the bible with an open mind that is logical and rational you will see this for yourself. It is only when we make excuses for God that God is relieved from being a true God.
In the OT it says God is a ‘jealous God’ and requires worship.
“You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their father’s wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation” Exodus 20:4-5
Once someone ‘requires’ anything outside themselves the persons peace will be disturbed. Yet the popular belief that God is perfect…the two (jealousy and perfection) don’t go together. In addition such a God would not pass the peace test. If the God did not receive worship the God’s peace would be disturbed from having demands and not getting those demands fulfilled. Then the God would have its peace disturbed even further by torturing the person for everlasting eternity since that person did not provide the worship the God demanded. Does all this smack of a perfect being, perfectly at peace or just man impersonating God
See:
jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/ … opic=133.0
You see, many people do with religion and their religious fixations the same as the compulsive gambler does with their fantasy.
Excerpt From: Gamblers Anonymous pamphlet “The dream world of a compulsive gambler.” A lot of time is spent creating images of great and wonderful things they are going to do as soon as they make “the big win.”… No one can convince them that their great schemes will not come true. They believe they will, for without this dream world, life for them would not be tolerable.
The truth is that which does not change. Man made religion is always changing. This phenomena of putting a spin on truth goes back to the earliest formations of the church when it was voted on by presumptuous individuals as to how to describe God and the trinity. You see it was all voted on and the proponent that had the ‘best spin’ on it got the credit for Nicene Creed. But in reality no one has a clew about this subject. Want a modern day example of such spiritual sickness, spin and lies?
“Roman Catholic Church Considers Abolishing Limbo Theory” A commission that met at the Vatican last week is expected to recommend to Pope Benedict XVI that the teaching of limbo be dropped. The Roman Catholic Church may abolish the concept of limbo – the place some Catholics believe the spirit of babies go if they die before being baptized
Snip from: christianpost.com/article/20051209/22492.htm
But it is impossible to have a rational discussion with most religious devotees when they insist on irrationality as their first line of defense. We are rational beings, logical beings, yet belief in God can only come about through irrational, non logical thought. Would a God that created rational, logical beings require such beings to follow irrational fantasy in order to believe in him? An example? While discussing fossils and ancient coal with a Christian he claimed that fossils and ancient coal are not really old and ‘planted by the devil’ to trick people from believing in God? this also recalls the book of Enoch, a book that was left out of the bible by the powers that decided what went into it when it was first formed. This book described many fantastic claims about how Eve was tricked by the devil masquerading as an angel. Would God create such subterfuge as planted fake fossils in order to trick his loved ones only to condom them to burning and torture for all eternity in hell because they cannot find out the rational and logical truth? Yes, such an unjust God would if your God is that of a sickly, delusional, religious devotee that believe is such fantasy.
Even when we discuss the story of Jesus, is it rational for God to have to kill his only begotten son in order to forgive us? What do we do when we forgive another? Do we kill our mother, son or daughter in order to forgive another person? Yet, Christians cling to this fantasy. Jesus was never born on December 25 and in fact there is no evidence Jesus was ever born at all. Christians adopted Christmas from the pagan December 25 holiday in order to promote their own agenda, just as they did with Halloween.
For further discussion of the Jesus myth see:
vexen.co.uk/books/jesusmysteries.html
atheists.org/christianity/myth.html
jesusneverexisted.com/fabrication.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_as_myth
home.ca.inter.net/~oblio/home.htm
suite101.com/article.cfm/7748/106446
abc.net.au/religion/stories/s1517078.htm
atheist-community.org/librar … php?id=700
christianorigins.com/goguel/
bede.org.uk/price1.htm
objectivethought.com/atheism/jesusmyth.html
pages.ca.inter.net/~oblio/jesus.html
infidels.org/library/histori … jesus.html
home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/creator/jesusmyth.htm
rationalrevolution.net/articles/ … ianity.htm
“Theology is a superstition - Humanity is a religion” - Robert G. Ingersol
BTW, what does work if all religion is created man made fantasy? See my previous discussion of this topic: jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/ … ?topic=4.0
V (male)