I would imagine the nietzschean ubermensch to be like the world in every way. He would be ‘worldish’ as in, the whole world belongs to him ~ in some manner.
‘for every city Alexander burns, there is one less for his empire!’
An ubermensch would in some way ‘know the world’, probably in a similar fashion to the world card in the tarot.
‘more cities may be built’
Prometheus, reaching the end of his journey, contains [1 the magician] and has now mastered that. He may mould the world to his choosing. Surely it means the ubermensch has an effective balance upon the forces within. Being of the world he would have a given percentage of the entire spectrum [which passes the journeying minds eye], one could say of mental illnesses, enough to know how the whole thing works.
A balanced view would and in all knowing [genetic history/the science] see people of all races being ‘the world’? That the blend is like the world or the judgement [cards] before it, churning up the entire set of ingredients if you will [the magician mastered].
Sorry dude, every Nietzschean on this forum is a racist, fencing their ideas in, undermining their capacity to understand. How many times have you guys seen me rap them for this shortsighted, foolish stupidity. They just sneer and mutter their old catch phrases, and stare at the dry wall.
A Nietzschean could never be a cosmopolitan, for every Nietzsche by necessity must clutch at the heart of defeat, and be spite driven. There is, after all, no sense if overcoming unless there is something to overcome. Its a lot easier to live is hate and segregation than to open up and explore the new and wonderful in the universe. The new is dangerous, but it is also full of opportunity for growth, and this makes it beautiful. No Nietzschean here is ever foreword looking, they lick their wounds, and turn inward only to stare at the inevitability of the deaths. To embrace Nietzsche, from what I have seen from the examples here, is to embrace your defeats. Power is in their minds that most loathesome mindset of all… spite.
Wretched, deformed souls transversing their own twisted labyrinth. Pity these Minotaur.
Not sure if your going to far the other way here lol, i mean, being happy and positive makes the world like some ghastly school project or something. Perhaps Nietzscheans and even Nietzsche himself didn’t make it to the end, such to fully know the world? The racism derives from an inherent ego drive, which feels the need to deride others such to make itself greater.
The ubermenschen would be well beyond that childish ideology. Each man would be for himself, reaching to his own potential. He’d have no need to arbitrarily classify humans based on superficial characteristics, nor caricature groups based on average scores for particular aspects of their abilities.
It’s more like, that every racist pretends to be Nietzschean without having the ability to grasp the most basic facts about FN’s philosophy.
Like most followers of out-of-date ideas, they scratch around for ideas to justify the unjustifiable.
We sometimes attack philosophers when we are disappointed with those who claim to represent them. So for instance if Ferg doesn’t like Sauwelios, he’s going to not like Nietzsche as well. Metaphorically speaking, the same thing happens when you hear that song or that band, and remember how Bob always played that CD. Three years later you hear the band and cringe, because all you hear and see is Bob. What as asshole Bob was. The music is tainted.
So some people assume Nietzschean philosophy is nonsense prior to first gaining it’s knowledge and wisdom. Then the cumulative effect taints what it touches - so to say. You’d always have that logical class manifest in the cluster of logical is/isn’t opposites forming n all that.
I wasn’t sure about Nietzsche myself, hmm and I’am still not so sure. I think that his ends makes me think of the two sided coin suffering/wisdom, and this as if like a curse at times, yet it is this which makes people attain some extra inspiration from somewhere - as if it’s an engine. So he must have come out with some profound perceptions during such times?
I sometimes wonder if he ever saw past his vision?
That may be the smartest insight I heard from you. Not entirely accurate… Nietzsche was about as cutting edge for the Nazis as Marcuse is for our era… old, but with a continuous tradition, enough to be called somewhat modern. We went through a shift in philosophy from a focus on Continental Philosophy to no one giving a fuck about current Continental Philosophy… the Germans switched political systems… but to your basic philosopher in both eras, it seems like a continuum. Nietzsche as a racist (not claiming he was a anti-semite) fit Hitler’s outlook well, Hitler was well rounded on Philosophers from Kant and Nietzsche on, would waste everyone’s time talking about them.
And Sauwelios didn’t cause me to hate Nietzsche, Sauwelios and Cezar caused me to hate “Nietzscheans” as a dynamic modern culture within the larger community of philosophy. 99% of my gripes are aimed at Nietzscheans as a stupifying collective of idiots. Nietzsche himself… I got pissed off at in Iraq, seeing the war… its only later on that I found Nietzsche thought that shitheadedness was a swell thing. Most modern Nietzscheans are too… segregated from the realities of politics and war to actually comprehend what goes on the intestinal level… where your stomach turns over seeing absurd destruction and inhumanity. The are like cows going “blah blah blah” with their heads up their asses.
Nietzsche kinda saw war… and digested it like a shitheaded tourist. Cesar/Historyboy did, and its why I pounded him hard every so often. But Sauwelios, he is neither. A completely bag of shit, full of it and bursting, haven’t a clue about how the world works, is far too sheltered and ineffective. He us the ultimate academic, and would be a little shit no matter what philosopher he followed. Academics have been proven to destroy any philosophy they come into contact with. I can’t recall the title of the book, but there is a good work on this phenomena that traces the evolution of philosophies as they evolved under their founders until a academic arouse in the school and systematically undermined and tamed it, until all the philosophical schools look the same. Sat through this whole massive text, and my basic assumption was… though not all INTPs (many can generate good, or at least interesting philosophies), INTPs have a disturbing approach that tames a philosophy into uselessness, makes it like every other philosophy out there, and uses it like a tool to fund their immediate social status and petite financial needs.
One of the best works I’ve read on the subject of how philosophical movements operate in relationship to one another, and devolve under academic influence.
I don’t expect every self named Nietzschean to fall under Sauwelios’ banner, or to even parallel it, nor do I realistically expect them to be “authentic”… not possible, unless they catch Syphilius and undergo the psychological degregation themselves. But some may adopt some of the ideas that lead people to behave like in Iraq, and I obviously am opposed to this. Half the Nietzscheans who pass through here are merely interested in art or experimenting with their sexuality, or investigating the Ubermensch as a useful training wheel for their hard to realise Atheism. I rarely even bother to say anything to such people, positive or negative, and if I do, I test them a bit to see what they think the ideas mean first. A misunderstanding, after all, is still a understanding and a philosophical observance in and of itself. I cherish the unique.
That is one of the dumber things you’ve said in a long time. Is this what they taught you when you were collecting field intel during the war, Cezar? That’s gibberish, and I know you know better.
Turd, what was Nietzsche for Nazis? Don’t you know that Nazis have stolen from Marx the idea of extermination of Jews and Slavs, while Nietzsche layd his hopes in those two? Also, Nazis had actually no own thoughts, they did just repeat what was popular at this times. Frustrated angry Flachköpfe.
A little corrction is due here,in an article published in the Neue Reiniche Zeitung, Jan. 13, 1849, entitled ‘Magyar Struggle’ (or Hungarian Struggle), it was
clearly pointed out that Watson made a mistake in escribing credit to Marx, instead it was Engels to whom the racist views were really credited to.
In addition, Engels ‘borrowed’ the concept from Hegel, who differentiated ‘historic’ from ‘noin-historic’ people. The Hungarian example was used m, referring to the 1848 revolution which had dissentions within it of societal differences between the Germans, the Austrians, and the Serbs. It seems most of the pivotal problems occured because of the problems within the Austro-Hungarian empire, at that time.
In addition, Walter Kauffman in ‘The Hegel Myth and it’s Method’, points to the falsehood of ascribing racism to Hegel.
Nietzche wrote in 1887, to an anti-semite named Theodore Fritsch that ‘he was not interested in racist ideas , calling the anti semetic movement queer, admonible, hypocritical , absurd and false.’
The association of Nietzche with anti-semitism, was probably infused by Nietzche’s sister, after his death.
If the above are supportive of the idea that racism did not come through the front door of German idealism, than it could have only come though the back door, of various sources, and for varying purposes and itnents.
Now imagine what an authority a single stupid woman can have over Turd, Sauwelios and other nationalists, democrats etc.
Sauwelios certainly meant I called the western nations “bitchiest and dirtiest” and thus he decided to be a contrarian in the other topic. I find so many frustrated “blond beasts” when I say something profound and crucial.
Shortsighted “blond beast”, blond frustration.
I don’t care who did carry the idea and how far. I am quite comfortable with Hitler saying he learned a lot from Marx. He probably didn’t have many other teachers.
It is probably true that Slavs are a lower race than Germans, Germans than ancient Greeks etc., but Germans are a declining race which means infected by stupidity and thus they will be defeated each time they try to prove any superiority, which will probably never happen again.
This is actually no topic for Nietzsche, he was beyond such stupid choices. Übermensch is a higher species, and we not only want to reach that over the Greeks, they are just the first step. Übermensch means to learn all morals and philosophies which existed. The sea of wisdom must be a higher racial species.
But without a new people this will never happen. Now you all lazy people can celebrate your old rotten nations as those who will live longest, in no matter what form.
He was still a very impressive racist, and trying to point out the Marxists were just as fucked up (on both similar and different grounds) hardly impresses me, as I can’t really see the difference between Fascism and Marxism. And before anyone jumps in with clever arguments, I’ve already been down that road… there is a obvious reason why the Nazis flag looks so very similar to the Soviet.
Both Nazis and Marxist can point back to shared influences, like Max Stirner, and Nietzsche most definately falls into that list, from this era to Saloth Sar, its all one system of political philosophy to me… one always too damn sure of the ideologue’s pivitol, revolutionary role in changing society, at any cost. You can make demons out of anyone with that mentality. Create all sorts of bloody chaos, and in the end for nothing, as the ends may justify the means, but surprise fucking surprise, the means never deliver. You end up with a lot of dead, and a open cognitive wound across society, where family lineages are cut off into extinction, and communities and individuals become displaced and antagonistic.
There is a reason why we evolved socially as we have, with personality distribution as it is. I’m not talking culture, something influenced by art or ideas, I’m talking actual personality wiring, how society sees itself as countless autonomous linkages, actually able to process thinking and spread it.
You start building systems that encourage and prohibit mutual attraction, or free association… the instinctive drive to sense out and comprehend your desires and deliver… society as a whole feels it, and begins to reorganize to overcome and adapt. Liquor stupified and retarded society… as did drugs… in our society someone like Smears/Mr. Reasonable is a paracite and a shithead, but during the American Prohibition, such men where revolutionaries. They organized society as the natural range of leaders alienated themselves.
Our cognitive distribution isn’t by accident. We impose ideas of caste, intellectuals, the select or the enlightened on aspects, but it’s largely delusional… nature finds its own balance, the heavy sinks, and the light rises. We are a species in commotion, but we shouldn’t intentionally trip up the locomotion by ordering what isn’t chaotic in the first place.
The paracitical shitheads… those who glorify hormonal complexes with cultural archetypes, and ignorantly stamp the word power on these pugnae imago… they are the worst kinds of fools as they can’t see beyond their own limitations, their own assumptions. Shit falls apart, and the people who naturally fix it aren’t around anymore… they are alienated, fled, stand in opposition, or far worst… just fucking dead. You can’t bring dead back.
You start off with the recognition of a problem… and you work all the problems out… it is completely logical, makes sense, and like minds agree with you. You have these few problem people. The simplest solution we ever came up with in the history of philosophy is to kill them… every problem we ever had falls in their lap as a result, a scapegoat… and every possible benefit cones from a higher model… some sort of paradise or idol.
You can’t see what links in your thinking are unconscious, glossed over and is consciously active in other forms of though alien to your egotism.
Such men are weak philosophers, and horrible politicians. They must be resisted against. When they strike, counter-strike. But such minds are also inevitably part of the solution. They are egoists who can’t see past themselves, in this state they are destructive parasites running ruin across the health of humanity.
A wise philosopher, a good leader studies human nature, learns to open up to what he doesn’t understand. This doesn’t mean be devoid of rationality and judgement, be open to what harms and kills. But he needs to study it closely, and the mechanisms across the human spectrum that naturally responds and reacts. Any ordering we do is minor and ad hoc, we let the genius of the species do its work. We identify, observe, dissect, and understand. We make sense of the uncomorehensible. We offer solutions based on our understanding of contemporary behaviorism and historical mechanics, such as parallels to today’s needs. We find the best of solutions.
We do not throw down a terribly wounded society, and declare ourselves demigods, and exploit and torture the survivors. We do not throw millions into the meat grinder of war for some abstract pleasure of a ideal society we pulled out of our asses. Those people we kill, we reject… they are our relatives, more like us than you can ever begin to realise. Ostrichize, beat down, segregate and send away… we only hurt ourselves. We denigrate the mass of humanity, our very soul, in such a process. In doing so, we alienate ourselves from ourselves, and from even God.
The philosopher, even the naked feral Cynic, especially him, is civilization. We cannot find a better expression of the ideals of mankind in them, nor mankind’s proneness to contradiction. If there is one thing philosophers must remember, its this… don’t turn your back on humanity, we are the natural cultivators of the species… our effects stretch well past any understandings of limiting awareness… of self, individuality, community, nation, empire… the contemporary or the future. Be careful, be studious, and never turn your back on the needs of philosophy, the needs of your fellow men. If I can point to any profession that closest resemble us, it would be that of the life saving doctor. Too many here assumes it is that of the undertaker. Stand up and attend to your duties. There is a worth to every life that stretches past your comprehension. Seek good and wise administration to overcome painful frictions, locate and rwmove inherent contradictions to make governance function again, be bold to present the unseen solutions that have always been before us but never considered.
You scratching and whining to make a point, or just to go out on the lawn and shit, Cezar? Sound like your just wanting to drop a load in the place of an idea.
Explain your esotericism… be a little more direct.
