Would You Eliminate Suffering?

Indeed true. Though there are some pleasures that appear naturally to be born of pain (i.e. the pain of gestation and giving birth precedes the pleasure of enjoying the child), there is much pleasure that does not require pain to gain, just like much good, ontologically based, can most certainly exist without evil, evil which, almost by definition, ignores the foundational realities of ontology in favor of the groundless epistemology of moral relativism’s extreme pragmatism.

Like having your baby birthed by a cow!

I’m assuming that if I had this power, I would also have the proper knowledge and wisdom of how to use this power, and in such a case, I would do the best thing. If you stuck little old dumb me with that much power, I wouldn’t change anything for fear of screwing things up worse.

Suffering only exists because we have created a word to signify a feeling of displeasure. If it wasn’t objectified and made into an abstract concept by way of acoustical sounds, it would not exist.

True, but you know what we mean.
Should I change the topic to:
Would you eliminate ‘extreme discomfort’?..
sounds ridiculous…
besides all words are sounds indicative of mental symbolism
what do you propose…sign language?
…reverting back to a more rudimentary language with less words?

I know what you meant, I was just adding my slant on the issue.

I’d first make distinction between suffering that arises from desire or frustration and suffering that arises from being systematically tortured by another person.

Obviously suffering coming from being tortured is insidious and needs to be eradicated, but suffering that emits from desire or frustration is essential to life.

I wasn’t being smart, I was just outlining the fact that suffering wouldn’t exist if there wasn’t a word to signify it. It would be an interesting study topic to trace back where and when it arose in language.

Twenty-nine
Do you think you can take over the universe and improve it?
I do not believe it can be done.
The universe is sacred.
You cannot improve it.
If you try to change it, you will ruin it.
If you try to hold it, you will lose it.

So sometimes things are ahead and sometimes they are behind;
Sometimes breathing is hard, sometimes it comes easily;
Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness;
Sometimes one is up and sometimes down.

Therefore the sage avoids extremes, excesses, and complacency.

Thirteen
. . . Misfortune comes from having a body.
Without a body, how could there be misfortune?
. . .

Tao Te Ching~Lao Tzu Tr. Gia Fu Feng & Jane English

to cease to suffer is to be unable to perceive, to be unconscious, inert, dead.

For all the ‘leave suffering alone’ devotees…
in your personal life…how much suffering have you endured?
If any, are you telling me it was good?
I don’t think so!

“that which does not kill me makes me stronger.”

-Imp

No, not at all. Suffering is terrible, but it cannot be eradicated. As Schopenhauer states, “any attempt to rid suffering only gives rise to it in another form”. In other words, we must learn to live with it, it is ineradicatable. I could rant on about my personal torment, but there’s no point, that’s not going to fix it. I must accept it and sublimate it.

Schopenhauer is dead.

I am alive, I have eliminated suffering in my life, and it is not only possible…but it is incredible.

The only value of suffering is to impulse us up enough to gain the knowledge required to overcome it,
and then,
create an island of sanity in this raging sea of quantum possibilities.

Each of us as a point of consciousness can establish our own ‘probabilities’,
and if you are really intelligent,
you’ll figure this out and make the best use of your mind.

There is a real difference between our minds and computers,
bottom line…they can only function, whereas we can impulse.
If you only use your mind to jostle and rehash the clever thoughts of dead men into a new combination
then you might as well be a Dell computer.

How did you do this, I am really interested to know.
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go thru hell first . . . and then never give up, and then it is a combination of a lot of other things which only you can find answers too.

Life won’t be perfect, but believe me that it is possible to be happy.

(I know you didn’t ask me)

I’m going to have to side with Kant on this one, when he said “suffering is for squares and toolboxes.” Now, I may be a tool, but I am not a fullblown toolbox, because a toolbox is a combo of being dorky AND mean. Ergo, suffering is gay, and I would end it if I could. It really is the nice thing to do, what with all those people who are not happy. Leave it to philosophy buffs to get a question like this wrong. I have enjoyed many things that have grown out of the compost of human misery, so maybe God has a plan. But here is my plan: fuck suffering. The yin and yang thing about there is no pleasure without pain is bullshit. It’s like saying we dream in black and white, which we don’t, (unless our mind is blocked by that black and white yin and yang symbol.) Soon we WILL end suffering, there will be three settings: bliss, blisser and blissest. The joy will open up doors to new potentials for human productivity and connection.

I adjustied my energetic resonance (which causes the unified field to synchronize
in a new configuration reflecting my input).
Everyone does this all the time, but for most it is unconscious and subconscious.

Ending of Suffering lies in understanding suffering, “to eliminate suffering” is meaningless because it is an interwoven aspect of Life.

As someone in this discussion previously had stated, Without suffering , pleasure makes no sense.

I aint saying that Suffering and Pleasure are eternal but was an abstemious manifestation of the Society as it was never capricious but the conundrum of relationships.

You eliminate suffering, you eliminate life.

Good luck.

Suffering is subjective. There is emotional, physical, etc. I have experienced only mild discomfort but have never suffered. Some day I will in some form or another, but for 35 years I have never even close “suffered.” And yet, I have experienced a huge amount of great pleasure and discover new forms of pleasure, physical and mental, every day. These pleasures are not a counterpoint to suffering. My pleasure makes sense, and I have not suffered. There is something disgusting in the unfounded assertion that suffering and pleasure are two sides of a coin, inextricably linked. It is neither wise, nor brave, but it seems that’s what people are going for when they make the assertion. They want to see themselves as wise, brave or powerless, to have accepted pain as a necessity. There is no reason to accept it, we never have, and we never will, except for the religious. Even some atheists will claim pain and pleasure are yin and yang, and that bipolar myopia bares close resemblance to religion. It’s the kind of thinking that ruins everything.

Gamer,

You might not have the Yin and Yang definitions quite right. They aren’t pain and/or pleasure. Suffering ceases when you release duality. All of the things one would call pleasure and pain are still present, they simply lose meaning.

I know, tough for the poets and wordmeisters, but an actuality.

Ooooh, I can feel a Tao coming on…

Gamer, I am curious: you feel that you have never ‘suffered’, only felt mild discomfort? What have you experienced that you felt was closest to suffering? What is on the more severe end of your ‘mild discomfort’ category?

I can put only a couple things into my ‘suffering’ category… a few years ago I took a graveyard shift as a security guard and the sleep deprivation fucked me up so bad that by the end I had OCD, was anxious and upset all the time and couldn’t sleep more than a couple hours every night. I guess it was mostly self-inflicted suffering; I could have gotten help, could have quit, etc. but I definitely remember thinking there was no worse feeling in the world.

Since then, they’ve fixed me up and I’ve only experienced mild to moderate discomfort. And before that I didn’t have much beyond discomfort either.

In regards to your thoughts about suffering itself, I very much agree that it is not necessary for the experience of happiness. In this imperfect world suffering (or at least discomfort) is often necessary to achieve happiness, but you could have just as well gone without the suffering straight to the reward. To take suffering as an inherent part of life rather than an unfortunate (and sometimes bypassable) checkpoint on the road to happiness is reminiscent of what religion does to morality: making morals rules which are good to follow in and of themselves (or because God says so) rather than teleological rules for forming a desired society.