You are walking along in a desert.....

You are walking along in a desert and you find a turtle turned over on its back and legs squirming. Do you turn the turtle over and allow it to live on or leave it?

I guarantee most people would turn the turtle over… but why? What is it about our human nature that cares whether this turtle lives or dies?

questions like this really bug you, don’t they? this is not the first thread that you’ve started about ethics and morality, in particular, you are searching for a solid justification for an amoral lifestyle. if you’re not willing to do the work to justify it (re: study) then simply accept that, because of who you are, this is how you live. if the latter, it is important to also accept that people, because of who they are, will live a certain way. this extreme egoism is not bad, but does absolutly nothing for society – well, the only society that it could be productive in is outlined by plato in the republic.

What is this about you that only sees the worst in people? I didn’t say it was wrong or that we shouldn’t turn the turtle over. I simply asked two questions . 1) would you 2 ) why would you feel compelled to turn it over… I would turn the turtle over as well. But I don’t really know why…

And I do study philosophy. It is my major. I can’t help if I was introduced to philo through Nietzsche

In the case of a turtle, Being is more beautiful than Non-Being.

You act as if this is a mistake, no Billy, this is a blessing.

I’d flip the turtle over.

Am I interfering with “nature?” I don’t care, “nature” doesn’t impress me much.

If anything, I am sparing the turtle the pain that will be suffered from the folly of nature’s design.

The turtle did not ask to be evolved in such a way that he couldn’t flip himself over should he end up on his back. This is “natures” fault, not the turtles.

But you say, “no, leave him to die, the strongest survive, he is weak and incapable of sustaining his existence.”

Sure, I concede the point, but is there such an ideal as an Uberturtle?

I only ask that the turtle make an effort, then, and only then, will I come to his rescue. If he lies there and complains without trying, then he gets nothing from me.

A wild thing is not capable of calamity, the turtle will writhe in pain until he dies. For this I respect him and defend him.

Why would we turn the turtle over?

It is in our best evolutionary interest that we protect life. If you desire to live, you make friends with nature. If you desire to die, you become indifferent towards nature.

My ethical response is simply this…wouldn’t you want someone to turn you over if you were stuck on your back?

I would turn the turtle over.

All of those who attribute Social Darwinism to Nietzsche need to do more homework.

I would turn the turtle over out of pity.

Bill wrote:

i don’t see the Worst in people! i can’t! i only see what they put out, and then i understand it. YOU’re the one who says its the worst, just now.

to ask the question ‘why’ invariable asks ‘why not’ at the same time. to question man’s perference, as warrior monk put it quiet nicely, for life over death is silly. we’re alive aren’t we? humanity’s alive? hell, look what we’ve done to it. there is a perferance made, and to not extent it to other live creatures is against nature.

it’s the part about you not knowing why tells me that you’re looking for further justificiation for amorality. hopefully you’ll get an answer when, you know, like, start working toward that degree in philosophy.

I think the reason why has to do with a liking for turtles. Probably starting with my childhood memories of watching Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Now if it was a snake caught under a rock or a a tarantula caught in some situation where it would need help. I am not so sure I would.