you just haven't earned it yet baby!

All this talk of Stirner reminds me of one of his best ideas.
What are you “good enough" for?

Was out tonight with an acquaintance of mine and he saw a young lady across from him a bit of away and informed myself and the other lad with us
“I deserve that”
So lets leave aside the dumb sexist objectification and say (he’s an aquaintance not a friend!) right back (as I did)
–“OK go get her so”

You deserve what’s within your compass, what you energy and ability for - what you “earn”, what you able for
Even if you are to “go beyond yourself” it comes from what you can do what you are “fit for”.

The world doesn’t owe you, doesn’t even know you

You hate politicians?

Every body hates politicians. (supposedly)
Yet
You march sheepishly to vote for them.
You get what you give
plus
what you can take.
We get what we are able for, what we “make our property”, what we are “good enough for”
What we earn through our actions and refusals of action.
What we deserve.
What we can take.

Krossie

shoplifters of the world UNITE!

Nobody deserves to be in hell for each move he truely persuiting for heavan

and i am not talking about myself but of what i know

what do you value in yourself been for krossie?

I dunno it changes over times - there are moments where you feel (I’d say I’m not the only one who gets this) destined for great things.
There are moments when you are absolutely forced back on yourself alone in very extreme and awful circumstances and you pull yourself up finding you are much more powerful then you ever imagined.
But there are also times where I just feel I can’t even start to get up in the morning and can’t even throw myself out of the bed - nothing makes sense!
I suppose I’m dynamic and contradictory like most human systems.

Krossie

you did’nt give in your answer any explanation of your thread? what do you think earn although did’nt get yet “darling”? more serously what do you think krossie of claiming truths you don’t think of to yourself? do you judge for instance yourself having this ability to do? this is bother me of it shapes depth, if you can see a truth without being of your feeling what is the mean than to suffer? more conflict with my faith, if same situation could belong to two different truth at least, it means we dont have any connection with absolute truths, i am sure that the truth is One, so you have to think you earn something you don’t have yet, what is it?

Can’t fully follow you Iman

but

The only meaning/truth in life is what you create in your life.
I don’t think meaning is packaged in/with the universe (despite how amazing it is) - Neither are we “owed” anything just for being alive.
And that’s not a “truth” its just my belief/opinion at this place and time!

Krossie

so what is your answer than ? what do you feel could create giving meaning to your life?

to your life?

There is no “answer” its different for everyone and it changes

  • for me, these days, its mainly other people plus almost any form of music!

kp

how could another give means to your feelings when they enjoy the music shapes? so that is what the thread is about, hearing the music of another you are making up words for it? i still dont understand what is in your mind krossie, you said the meaning in life is to create, than you said not me but another just for the music he would make, what kind of music creation is to your ears? what is creation to you krossie? all i can see right now is you seeing other as an object to manipulate, how could you have a sense of other presence when you are unable to give a word of his feelings, when it is obvious that is all of dark intention you enjoy to be?

Don’t know if I can elaborate much further Iman.
Life is a creative enterprise.
Music probably can’t raise objections to me using it for my ends.
People though - well we just have to battle it out I guess.
For Stirner (very contra Kant for example), certainly, you can “use” people (he’s very explicit on this word) for your own ends.
Idealy (for me) it would be nice if it was “mutual exploitation”.
But still the same idea you can do or get what you fit for and can do no more and should do no less.

Krossie

Each organism only deserves what it maintains.
Humans do not deserve the entire earth.
Each man deserves to own his own body.

It is easier to force others into action – then to master the self.

Nature is a stupid bitch.

I can find nothing to disagree with today in your pessimistic Nihilism Dan -
Maybe tomorrow I’ll be a more optimistic nihilist

Not that it really matters!

Krossie

Lord Krossie… I have sinned.
Forgive me father, for I have sinned many times.

I opened my mouth, and again and again I have lied.

I called them human. I called them people. I called them intelligent. I said that they were alive.

My sick lies have hurt far too many people.
Lies. All so many lies.

But they are automated, robotic, animal machines.
They are not “people”.
They are small systems – made of failing parts – which fallow a small cycle.

Born. Grow. Fuck. Die.

There is the “joy”, the “truth”, the “pleasure” and the “happiness” – which help motivate the robot to carry out its program. There is a green and a red light. When something is “true” for the human machine, the green light goes: “DING*”. Suddenly it is “true”, because it “works”, because it is an object which can be exploited to further the automatic program.

And oh! Human rights!?’
The only humans on earth that have rights are the ones that are alive and ritch.
Tomarrow, when the “rights” of all of the children are gone, I will call it a new age…

And as for globalism, no more fair a trade.
I am on the other side of the world, and I control your life.
I am too far away from you to ever be hurt by you.

Economic cannibalsim.

What did I just fucking say!?
I said something!
Here it is again:

Economic cannibalsim.

In the context of the vast and teaming becomings of the multiverses that swarm and muliply over the aeons - we can, for now, overlook this slight oversight on your part (or at least the programme or bundle of events and sensations or internet bot that implementsitself as Dan)

Moving onto more serious issues:

It is understood the garda inspector, who has 30 years service and is based at Garda Headquarters in Dublin, became extremely agitated after he put money into a jelly bean machine and did not get any sweets!

rte.ie/news/2005/0720/tipperary.html

krossie

i know that you know much more and you dont even like me to feel honest or willing to give anything, it is all a matter of abuse power as you like to say and you sure seem to know a lot what would justify my hell, my nature is perfect Dan no matter what you think and knowing that yours suck dont make of you a better man, but you know that it is not the issue, Here is One God and you feel heavan to be with Him like He made you to feel his love for you and for me to say on my desert without any reality of my truth, exploit your ennemy weakness this is your wisdom and you all see me as stupid rebel to justify all manipulations abuse i have to accept, there is never one word of truth in all your looks especially to me, thank you for the respect you give to an honest man, thank you guys as thank you your God, it is so painful to know that i will never ever see mine

Iman, nope not stupid rebel. You are bilingual, and if I was speaking in another language it would be difficult. POV is religious fanatic. :laughing:

This is the West and many are not religious. We are at the high end in the USA with 70% Christian, but not me.

“I am thy God, and there shall be no other Gods before me.”

And then all of the other gods died of laughter.

[size=150][ * Cries * ][/size]
OH GOD THAT FELT GOOD! SAY IT AGAIN!
WEEEE! :smiley:

You – you know that there are reproducing multiverses! :smiley:

Here’s some words by Steven.A.

Quantities of information are a bit difficult to quantize because there are various measures that could be used but it would seem that new information present in the universe would be seen as unpredictable states that had no prior cause.

Some operations can occur losslessly with regard to information. For example, balls on a perfect pool table could bounce around, never losing energy and in theory the entire evolution of the system in the past and future could be determined by simply knowing where they started. If instead the balls were made of putty and stuck together, then you couldn’t look at the end result and determine what the starting state was (that could be viewed as having more complexity and information present). For real putty balls, the collisions would create heat and I assume theoretically, if you ignore quantum phenomenon, you could reconstruct things by analyzing this internal heat generated and backtrack the source, so nature seems to retain information in various ways.

One thing to look at is that there might be some processes in nature that did not retain information, as well as some universes that might have allowed information to increase. It’s interesting to consider what the effects of these possibilities would be. A universe that allowed processes to lose information would find a drop in information content over time, though ultimately it could remain stable as the remaining processes would be required to act in such ways as not to create a scenario under which information is lost. It would be a one way scenario though and a piece of information could only be lost once, though not all information would necessarily be lost over time as some could remain cycling within lossless processes. For example, during the Big Bang, there might have been lossy modes of interaction to energy available, but these died off quickly and things cooled down (that’s just a thought) and it would be effectively evolution requiring anything that remained to followed limited modes of interaction, with “mistakes” being allowed only once. Just like atomic decay, after a period of time you’d be left with primarily stable particles.

On the other hand, a universe that allowed information to be created would first seem to require a source of that information to be available - if new information is to be added, then it could be viewed as entering into this universe from outside it. This might be similar to the typical view of a black hole as having a one way flow of information into it (though it appears that this likely isn’t very true of real black holes and probably it’s more like storage and delay of information).

To give an analogy of what I’ve been thinking is likely the case for our universe, with regard to information is retained over time, there may be a continuous source of new energy/information into our universe not unlike white noise being transmitted into an object. The duration of time that each “frequency” is retained depends upon the “quality factor” or mathematically, Q of the circuit. If you imagined the universe as a tuning fork being stimulated by white noise, overall the primary frequencies present would be centered around the resonant note or harmonics of this, but new information could be entering the system all the time and creating both novel frequencies at a low level as well as gradually influencing the amplitude and phase of the primary and harmonics. The most obvious resonant modes would appear lossless, but this would be just a macroscopic approximation and if any gradual shift occured in the structure of this tuning fork, eventually those frequencies would decay and new resonances would grow and appear as a gradual shift over time (though it might be possible to instead have these initial energies stretched out over time and not decay but instead be frequency shifted … just a thought).

I posted mostly because I don’t think the Big Bang was a one shot deal but reflects the “channel characteristics” that we see the universe through. For example, if you tried to speak through a very long pipe, you’d hear artifacts of the resonances and filter characteristics of this pipe, but in theory if you determined what the channel characteristic was, you could remove these artifacts and hear the person speaking clearly (I’ve actually done some audio processing along these lines before and it works rather well), this is very similar to the idea of sending the sound through a tuning fork or other structure. Comparing this with the Big Bang, we currently see things as how they’ve evolved over time, but the creative source of this would likely be pure incoherent energy or information like white noise. We couldn’t see this directly except as chaos but we can see the repeatitive structures created by the “channel”/physical laws that this energy passes through. I believe when we look out (or inward, depending on the perspective) to the Big Bang, we’re seeing the source of this information or the original signal that was unfiltered by “spacetime”.

Something interesting to consider is that pure information would likely not have spacial properties to it. The space we understand is constructed of non-random, repeative and predictable structures. We can only understand orbits because they recur and are predictable. Pure information, though it might be witnessable as affecting something at a location in the space we intuitively understand, would seem necessarily unpredictable, or it would be redundant and not truly new information and instead part of predictable space. It makes sense from this perspective that the Big Bang is seen as both all encompassing, yet dimensionless, as a pure source of information would be independent of this universe and not be tied to spacial structures within ours (though if it acts as a creative force, then it would be molding the universe but in necessarily unpredictable ways or instead we’d view it as a law of nature and not a novel/creative source of information).

I better stop there and wait for that information to seep in.

^^
Which ever true-god could make a universe, obviously had enough smarts to give Onan a heart-attack for slapping his own penis.
:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

iman, enough.
Please don’t tell me about what you think monotheism is.

Looks interesting Dan I’ll print out and have a read when I get into work in the morning - nothing like philosophizing on the boss’s time!

Krossie

you are mean it is the only explanation i get to your presence in depth without a sound of love